[talk-au] river monitoring locations

2010-05-19 Thread John Smith 
I can't remember if any of the data from data.australia.gov.au
includes river monitoring levels or not, but I've just created a wiki
page for monitoring stations:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made=monitoring_station

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread John Smith 
On 20 May 2010 13:05, Brendan Morley  wrote:
> I was thinking more about the situation where they use the map to navigate, 
> either as a printout or even driving directions.  OSM tells them to use 
> "East-West
> Arterial Road" and all they can see on the sign is "EAST WEST ART RD"?  Is it 
> the same thing?  Think about it the other way, what if you were trying to 
> decipher,
> for example, Japanese script?

What's on signs isn't always the ofiicial name and it isn't the only
way to verify the street names. Councils have been dropping
apostrophes from signs, but the official street name still contains
them.

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Brendan Morley 
On Thu, 20 May 2010 12:13:38 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote:

>> Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around here.

>I has nothing to do with usage it has everything to do with storage in the 
>database.

>If we tell a tourist to go to Alpha Street they can then enter into a search 
>engine Aplha Street or Alpha St or Alpha Str and the search engine can then 
>search 
appropriately.

I was thinking more about the situation where they use the map to navigate, 
either as a printout or even driving directions.  OSM tells them to use 
"East-West 
Arterial Road" and all they can see on the sign is "EAST WEST ART RD"?  Is it 
the same thing?  Think about it the other way, what if you were trying to 
decipher, 
for example, Japanese script?


Brendan



___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread John Smith 
On 20 May 2010 12:12, Andrew Gregory  wrote:
> abbreviations policy. It also means there's a couple of "St ." that I
> need to go back and fix to "Saint .".

Saint can be either St or Saint, eg St George shouldn't be expanded.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Invalid_Abbreviation_Expansion

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Roy Wallace 
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Brendan Morley  wrote:
>
> Yes, I would be *recording* what I *saw* in the field.

FWIW, I think Brendan's got a good point. It comes down to what's
verifiable. I disagree with Ross that an abbreviation mapping can only
work one way. It is possible to search for a Street and find a St just
as it is possible to search for a St and find a Street.

However, I don't think it's worth trying to change the convention at
this point. Spell "Street" in full, even if you only see "St" - only
because it's a convention that would be hard to change.

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Andrew Gregory 
On Thu, 20 May 2010 09:59:21 +0800, Ben Last  wrote:

> Street types are covered by AS4590, Interchange of client information,
> Australia Post Address Presentation Standard.
>
> See also:
> http://meteor.aihw.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/270020/meteorItemView/long

I've added all the street name abbreviations I know to the list at:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations#English

I think it's important that what is stored in the database must be as  
unambiguous as possible. That means I totally agree with the no  
abbreviations policy. It also means there's a couple of "St ." that I  
need to go back and fix to "Saint .".

-- 
Andrew Gregory 


___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Ben Last 
Street types are covered by AS4590, Interchange of client information,
Australia Post Address Presentation Standard.

See also:
http://meteor.aihw.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/270020/meteorItemView/long

The fact that I know this is quite sad...

Cheers
b

On 20 May 2010 09:46, Brendan Morley  wrote:

> On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:05:00 +1000, John Smith wrote:
>
> >On 20 May 2010 11:01, Brendan Morley <
> *morb@beagle.com.au*> wrote:
>
> >> Brisbane regularly have the street type abbreviated (ST, RD, MWY, ART)
> and I
> >> think it is better to record the "in the field" name as such. Even with
> >> accurate capitalisation.
> >>
> >> Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around
> here.
> >
> >You are confusing use with recording, if you record the actual street
> >type, software can then convert both the searches and the output to
> >show what people expect, some street types have multiple abbreviations
> >and would be even more difficult to search.
>
> Yes, I would be *recording* what I *saw* in the field.
>
> Is there even an official interpretation table in the Queensland
> jurisdiction? Even survey plans never seem to declare the road type in full.
>
>
> Brendan
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>


-- 
Ben Last
Development Manager (HyperWeb)
NearMap Pty Ltd
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Brendan Morley 
On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:05:00 +1000, John Smith wrote:

>On 20 May 2010 11:01, Brendan Morley  wrote:
>> Brisbane regularly have the street type abbreviated (ST, RD, MWY, ART) and I
>> think it is better to record the "in the field" name as such. Even with
>> accurate capitalisation.
>>
>> Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around here.

>You are confusing use with recording, if you record the actual street
>type, software can then convert both the searches and the output to
>show what people expect, some street types have multiple abbreviations
>and would be even more difficult to search.

Yes, I would be *recording* what I *saw* in the field.

Is there even an official interpretation table in the Queensland jurisdiction?  
Even survey plans never seem to declare the road type in full.


Brendan

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Ross Scanlon 
On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:01:43 +1000
"Brendan Morley"  wrote:

> On Sun, 9 May 2010 18:59:25 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote:
> 
> >7.  Abbreviations
> 
> >-  Abbreviations in street names are a no no.  Read the wiki page at 
> >http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name,  DON"T do it.  At the moment in 
> >the Bunbury 
> area alone there are 380+ abreviated street names (according to josm 
> validator).
> 
> I actually would like to discuss this a bit further.  Street signs in 
> Brisbane regularly have the street type abbreviated (ST, RD, MWY, ART) and I 
> think it is better to 
> record the "in the field" name as such.  Even with accurate capitalisation.

Not just in Brisbane most of Australia has street signs this way.
 
> Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around here.

I has nothing to do with usage it has everything to do with storage in the 
database.

If we tell a tourist to go to Alpha Street they can then enter into a search 
engine Aplha Street or Alpha St or Alpha Str and the search engine can then 
search appropriately.

If the info in the database is Alpha St then what's to say the it is not Alpha 
Saint or Alpha Strip or Alpha Street and so you end up with lot's of extraneous 
results.

By entering the full type of street, road, etc it's then just a matter of 
having an appropriate abbreviation look up table to convert from before 
searching going the other way is more difficult.  So entering Alpha Street will 
return the correct info but likewise so will Alpha St.




-- 
Cheers
Ross

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread John Smith 
On 20 May 2010 11:01, Brendan Morley  wrote:
> Brisbane regularly have the street type abbreviated (ST, RD, MWY, ART) and I
> think it is better to record the "in the field" name as such. Even with
> accurate capitalisation.
>
> Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around here.

You are confusing use with recording, if you record the actual street
type, software can then convert both the searches and the output to
show what people expect, some street types have multiple abbreviations
and would be even more difficult to search.

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] General Observations.

2010-05-19 Thread Brendan Morley 
On Sun, 9 May 2010 18:59:25 +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote:

>7.  Abbreviations

>-  Abbreviations in street names are a no no.  Read the wiki page at 
>http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name,  DON"T do it.  At the moment in 
>the Bunbury 
area alone there are 380+ abreviated street names (according to josm validator).

I actually would like to discuss this a bit further.  Street signs in Brisbane 
regularly have the street type abbreviated (ST, RD, MWY, ART) and I think it is 
better to 
record the "in the field" name as such.  Even with accurate capitalisation.

Think tourists who aren't familiar with the way we do things around here.


Brendan

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au