Re: [talk-au] NSW Parish Maps

[Andrew Harvey]

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
> Legality wise, I would only use maps that are "dated" as prior to 1960
> (which most are), but I still don't know if this passes all
> requirements (because they may not have been "published" until much
> later, I'm not sure).

According to http://www.copyright.org.au/g023.pdf "Artistic works"
where the government is the copyright holder lasts 50 years from the
year of making not when it was first published. So the printed maps
(but maybe not the handwritten amendments on top) should be in the
public domain.

Should I be asking legal-talk about if this is okay instead?

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Re: [talk-au] NSW Parish Maps

[John Smith]

On 9 August 2010 17:31, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
> Should I be asking legal-talk about if this is okay instead?

You'll get opinions, but they may not be very useful, you definitely
won't get actual legal advice.

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[talk-au] Revert 5439540?

[Andrew Gregory]

I was just browsing the map and noticed a big hole in Subiaco:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-31.94482&lon=115.82244&zoom=17&layers=M

Not really sure what I'm seeing, but this changeset (by a "pholland")  
seems responsible?


http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5439540

--
Andrew Gregory 


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Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

[Markus]

You are right,

That account was also only created 13 hours ago.

I just downloaded the changeset in JOSM and I will revert it shortly.

Not sure what to do with the user though.

Markus 

-Original Message-
From: talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-au-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Gregory
Sent: Monday, 9 August 2010 11:46 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

I was just browsing the map and noticed a big hole in Subiaco:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-31.94482&lon=115.82244&zoom=17&layers=M

Not really sure what I'm seeing, but this changeset (by a "pholland")  
seems responsible?

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5439540

-- 
Andrew Gregory 


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Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

[Grant Slater]

On 9 August 2010 15:51, Markus  wrote:
> You are right,
>
> That account was also only created 13 hours ago.
>
> I just downloaded the changeset in JOSM and I will revert it shortly.
>
> Not sure what to do with the user though.
>

Assume it was an innocent mistake, offer help. If it continues and it
is justified report it to the Data Working Group who can block him or
post a message on his account which he is required to confirm before
he can continue editing.

More info here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism

Regards
 Grant

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Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

[Markus]

I will send a help message tomorrow to the user.

The revert has now finished.

Need to go to bed now.

Markus

-Original Message-
From: gr...@firefishy.com [mailto:gr...@firefishy.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Slater
Sent: Tuesday, 10 August 2010 12:29 AM
To: Markus
Cc: Andrew Gregory; talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

On 9 August 2010 15:51, Markus  wrote:
> You are right,
>
> That account was also only created 13 hours ago.
>
> I just downloaded the changeset in JOSM and I will revert it shortly.
>
> Not sure what to do with the user though.
>

Assume it was an innocent mistake, offer help. If it continues and it
is justified report it to the Data Working Group who can block him or
post a message on his account which he is required to confirm before
he can continue editing.

More info here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism

Regards
 Grant


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Re: [talk-au] Revert 5439540?

[Andrew Gregory]

On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 23:06:23 +0800, Markus  wrote:


I will send a help message tomorrow to the user.

The revert has now finished.

Need to go to bed now.

Markus


Thanks for that! By coincidence there was a post on the general talk list  
that mentioned the Josm revert plugin. I guess that's what you used? I've  
downloaded that now so I guess in future I might be able to do that sort  
of thing myself? Still reading the wiki docos


--
Andrew Gregory 


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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[16]

Hello.

> For those of you that dislike the new wiki look, you can revert it by going 
> to:
> 
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Preferences
> 
> Click on 'Appearance', and then select 'MonoBook' and save...

Thank you for that. Looks a lot more "normal" now.

Just being evil-minded and petty; I wonder if this hint should be added
(discretely) to, say, the Australian Tagging Guidelines. Might as well
keep up the image of "them ignorant Southern Hemisphere hicks wot
doesn't like to toe the line"?

Incidentally, is it just me, or has there been a whole lot more
"fiddling" with the wiki; and a whole lot less mapping data entry since
the license cold war broke out? In a perverse moment yesterday I did a
bit of a local test to find out the impact of removing nodes touched by
people known to be anti-ODbL, and discovered that (for example) Ballina
nearly completely disappears if you, me and Rosscoe's edits were
removed, and renders Lismore more or less completely dependent upon
Brenton (Biogenesis_). Amazing how fragile some areas are.

Back to the wiki. Have you also noticed a quiet change in that the
prompt regarding the licence change which appeared on every page for the
last few months is now gone?

Bad Tim.

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[John Smith]

On 10 August 2010 07:54, 16  wrote:
> Just being evil-minded and petty; I wonder if this hint should be added
> (discretely) to, say, the Australian Tagging Guidelines. Might as well
> keep up the image of "them ignorant Southern Hemisphere hicks wot
> doesn't like to toe the line"?

I need to get a shirt printed with that on it!

> Incidentally, is it just me, or has there been a whole lot more
> "fiddling" with the wiki; and a whole lot less mapping data entry since
> the license cold war broke out? In a perverse moment yesterday I did a
> bit of a local test to find out the impact of removing nodes touched by
> people known to be anti-ODbL, and discovered that (for example) Ballina
> nearly completely disappears if you, me and Rosscoe's edits were
> removed, and renders Lismore more or less completely dependent upon
> Brenton (Biogenesis_). Amazing how fragile some areas are.

That's not an acurate way to view it, to do it properly you'd have to
filter through the entire change set history until you hit an editor
you want to exclude, rather than the last person to make a change.

Also I'm pretty sure that I'm not anti-ODBL, but I am anti-CT and anti-DBCL...

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[Grant Slater]

On 9 August 2010 23:01, John Smith  wrote:
> On 10 August 2010 07:54, 16  wrote:
>> Just being evil-minded and petty; I wonder if this hint should be added
>> (discretely) to, say, the Australian Tagging Guidelines. Might as well
>> keep up the image of "them ignorant Southern Hemisphere hicks wot
>> doesn't like to toe the line"?
>
> I need to get a shirt printed with that on it!
>

I'm the evil bastard who upgraded the wiki + changed the default skin.
I'm a proud new South African. (*insert rugby comment here*)
There was a problem until today with the wiki edit page, it should now be fixed.

I removed the wiki 'license change' banner when I upgrade the install
of MediaWiki, nothing sinister. I've just re-added the banner now.

PS: Being from the Southern Hemisphere, when is someone going to make
a "correct side up" OSM map?

Regards
 Grant
 Part of the OSM sysadmin team.

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[16]

On 10/08/10 08:01, John Smith wrote:
> On 10 August 2010 07:54, 16  wrote:
>> Just being evil-minded and petty; I wonder if this hint should be added
>> (discretely) to, say, the Australian Tagging Guidelines. Might as well
>> keep up the image of "them ignorant Southern Hemisphere hicks wot
>> doesn't like to toe the line"?
> 
> I need to get a shirt printed with that on it!

Wow. Not my best line. I had something like this in mind (with suitable
apologies to Nord-American cousins):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UA3SrGRPRc

>> Brenton (Biogenesis_). Amazing how fragile some areas are.
> 
> That's not an acurate way to view it, to do it properly you'd have to
> filter through the entire change set history until you hit an editor
> you want to exclude, rather than the last person to make a change.

Good point. It was only a casual exercise in egotism... I really hope it
doesn't come to this in any case, which is why I didn't do it seriously.

> Also I'm pretty sure that I'm not anti-ODBL, but I am anti-CT and anti-DBCL...

Once more agreed. Struggling for a suitable expression; "Everybody just
sit down and stop rocking the  boat!" seems to fit closest. Do I
have to resort to Josh Billings?

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Re: [talk-au] ODBL yet again, but from a pragmatic approach...

[John Smith]

Since I've heard nothing more about this I can only assume that any
consideration for a compromise has been rejected by the pro-PD crowd.

On 30 July 2010 15:54, John Smith  wrote:
> On 30 July 2010 15:40, Andrew Harvey  wrote:
>> I was going to just create a new account, and not agree to the CTs,
>> only to discover you cannot create an account without accepting. That
>> means that no new members can contribute by deriving information from
>> Nearmap imagery...
>>
>
> I've cc'd Grant on this email, he posted to the #osm-au IRC channel
> about some proposed changes to the CTs, which I was hoping would have
> come up in another thread by now:
>
> "LWG is considering:
>
> 3. OSMF agrees to use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a
> database and only under the terms of one of the following licenses:
> the Open Database Licence for the database and Database Contents
> Licence for the individual contents of the database; or the Creative
> Commons Attribution-ShareAlike Licence (version 2.0 or later)
>
> If You have indicated to OSMF that you waive any rights in Your
> Contents (dedication to the 'public domain'), OSMF will additionally
> use or sub-license Your Contents under: the Public Domain Dedication &
> License; or the Creative Commons CC0 waiver."
>

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[David Murn]

On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 07:54 +1000, 16 wrote:

> ... In a perverse moment yesterday I did a bit of a local test to find
>  out the impact of removing nodes touched by people known to be
>  anti-ODbL, and discovered that (for example) Ballina nearly completely
>  disappears if you, me and Rosscoe's edits were removed, and renders
>  Lismore more or less completely dependent upon Brenton (Biogenesis_).
>  Amazing how fragile some areas are.

As John pointed out, you need to check the entire history, not just the
last editor.  As John recently ran a script which modified every single
residential street in the country (without a maxspeed limit set), this
means if you exclude the streets with his name attached, youd be wiping
out almost every residential street, even though someone else might have
maintained the area for years before the change was made.

Also, there are many mappers around, just because one or two people
didnt map an area, doesnt mean it wouldnt be mapped.  If a mapper sees
an area filled in, they wont work so closely on that area, but if those
2 or 3 users you mentioned, hadnt mapped the area they did, someone else
would have.

David


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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[John Smith]

On 10 August 2010 09:34, David Murn  wrote:
> Also, there are many mappers around, just because one or two people
> didnt map an area, doesnt mean it wouldnt be mapped.  If a mapper sees
> an area filled in, they wont work so closely on that area, but if those
> 2 or 3 users you mentioned, hadnt mapped the area they did, someone else
> would have.

Not in regional and rural areas, until Nearmap coverage most of
Albury/Woodonga were unmapped, same with Bendigo and so on...

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[Liz]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Grant Slater wrote:
> PS: Being from the Southern Hemisphere, when is someone going to make
> a "correct side up" OSM map?

With the new southern hemisphere fork, except i need to keep all of Brazil in, 
so the northern boundary may be rubbery

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[talk-au] NearMap/Stuart Nixon interview on Nestoria (mentioning OpenStreetMap)

[Ben Last]

Hi all

Though you might be interested in this; posting it is somewhat
shameless promotion of NearMap, but Stuart talks about our
relationship with OSM (in part 2) and also discusses our approach to
crowdsourced/community-sourced data, so I thought some might find it
interesting background.  Plus it's hopefully more interesting than yet
more discussion of licensing...

Part 1: http://blog.nestoria.com.au/nestoria-interview-stuart-nixon-from-nearmap
Part 2: http://blog.nestoria.com.au/

Cheers
ben

-- 
Ben Last
Development Manager (HyperWeb)
NearMap Pty Ltd

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Re: [talk-au] Dislike the new wiki skin?

[Elizabeth Dodd]

On Tue, 2010-08-10 at 07:54 +1000, 16 wrote:


Also, there are many mappers around, just because one or two people
didnt map an area, doesnt mean it wouldnt be mapped.  If a mapper sees
an area filled in, they wont work so closely on that area, but if those
2 or 3 users you mentioned, hadnt mapped the area they did, someone else
would have.


that is very dependent on where you are
There is very little overlap and adjusting of my stuff in western NSW
I appreciate that closer to the coast that could be very true.

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Re: [talk-au] NearMap/Stuart Nixon interview on Nestoria (mentioning OpenStreetMap)

[Liz]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010, Ben Last wrote:
> Though you might be interested in this; posting it is somewhat
> shameless promotion of NearMap, but Stuart talks about our
> relationship with OSM (in part 2) and also discusses our approach to
> crowdsourced/community-sourced data, so I thought some might find it
> interesting background.  Plus it's hopefully more interesting than yet
> more discussion of licensing...
> 
> Part 1:
> http://blog.nestoria.com.au/nestoria-interview-stuart-nixon-from-nearmap
> Part 2: http://blog.nestoria.com.au/

I enjoyed the reading, thanks Ben.

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