[talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
Firstly I must apologize to John Smith and others in regard to my rant yesterday. At first I was unaware of the issues and even the existence of the fork. I'm happy that at least the improvements I'm making won't entirely disappear forever. I'm still quite peeved about the fork though. I don't think fosm will last seeing as it only really seem to be an issue in Australia. I think that probably I should continue to edit the OSM stuff as it is for now then see what we're left with after. I can always retag from my records after the split. It seems many of the streets in contention will still exist, just moved. I'm hoping the new tags I've added to them will survive though. Thanks, David On 07/01/2012, at 4:24 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 7 January 2012 16:13, David Findlay da...@woodypointcomms.com.au wrote: before common mobile phones had GPS built in. They are marked as Author JohnSmith who seems to be an anal retentive prick. It looks to me like a I just love the admiration people give out for those that spent a lot of time and effort trying to make OSM the best map possible, only to throw away all the hard work and throw insults in the faces of people. No wonder people don't want to bother with OSM and it's petty politics and contribute to Google map maker instead, if any one ever asks me about OSM/OSM-F I just tell em not to bother any more they're schizophrenic attitudes towards contributors are like to change again in future and again they'll toss out even more data and contributors... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
David wrote I can always retag from my records after the split Hi David, It does seem that most of your work will survive. Those maxspeed edits done by bots (under the userid of JohnSmith or Rosscoe) will disappear without harm in April. A lot of them are incorrect so the accuracy of the OSM data will actually improve a bit. However some decliner edits will affect your work. If you look at the intersection of Leichardt Avenue and Amity Drive. It seems that you mapped this area well, in 2007. Then in 2009 the user JohnSmith and also Rosscoe have made minor improvements and tweaks. This has, in a lot of cases ended up with them being version1 owners of the roads you mapped. These will disappear with the licence change and the one bit of Amity Drive that still has you in the histroy chain will be left disconnected. You will nedd to remap these bits from your original data and you can also use Bing to put in that roundabout at the intersection. The real problem is that you can't easily see which of your work is only tainted by the maxspeed bots and which has been compromised by other decliner edits. However I'm hopeful there may be a soultion to this problem in the near future. Till then you will need to inspect your work (way by way) to check out the history chain, manually ignore any changes by JohnSmith or Rosscoe that were only for masxpeed maxspeed:source or source:maxspeed, and then concentrate on what of your information is at risk from any other decliner edits. You will find that decliners have put in roundabouts, straightened roads, added turning circles etc. The turning circles are good to be there but there removal is not an issue unless an acceptor has subsequently tied a footpath to it, so it would be usefull for you to delete the decliners turning circle, the whole node not just the tag and re add it from your info (or Bing). This is a lot of work (you should see the hammering I'm giving the history database) but will result in the minimal damnage to our data come April. Nick ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [sharedmapau] Re: Mass revert now??
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 5:24 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I just love the admiration people give out for those that spent a lot of time and effort trying to make OSM the best map possible, only to throw away all the hard work and throw insults in the faces of people. Let's recap: 1) You did lots of hard work creating content 2) You applied the maxspeed change 3) You refused to accept the contributor terms Now, 3) totally negates the benefit of 1). It's actually worse than if you had never contributed anything at all, because the net effect for us is a lot of wasted effort in trying to work around your contributions. And 2) makes all this much worse again. So, regardless of how much time and effort you've actually put in, as far as I see your overall contribution to OSM, it's negative. You have harmed this project more than you have helped it. Sorry, but it's true. Buying someone the most amazing birthday present counts for nothing if you take it away from them again. So, John, if you'd like to tick that little box that indicates acceptance of the CTs, then I'd be happy to shower you with admiration and gratitude. If not, it's hard to see what we have to be grateful for: your contribution to the OSM database will be precisely zero. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] [sharedmapau] Re: Mass revert now??
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Let's recap: 1) You did lots of hard work creating content 2) You applied the maxspeed change 3) You refused to accept the contributor terms Now, 3) totally negates the benefit of 1). It's actually worse than if you had never contributed anything at all, because the net effect for us is a lot of wasted effort in trying to work around your contributions. And 2) makes all this much worse again. So, regardless of how much time and effort you've actually put in, as far as I see your overall contribution to OSM, it's negative. You have harmed this project more than you have helped it. Sorry, but it's true. Buying someone the most amazing birthday present counts for nothing if you take it away from them again. He isn't taking anything away. Those contributions were may under the CC-BY-SA license. You are free to continue using them under the CC-BY-SA license. OSM wants more rights than that. JohnSmith doesn't agree, and is within his rights not too. That isn't the same as taking back the original CC-BY-SA grant. To correct your analogy, JohnSmith gave you an amazing birthday present which you asked for, but now you decide you don't want it anymore and you don't know how to dispose of it so you are blaming the person who gave it to you. The maxspeed change kept in tack the full history of the original object. All you have to do is roll back your objects to the last CT clean version, and work forwards from there. So, John, if you'd like to tick that little box that indicates acceptance of the CTs, then I'd be happy to shower you with admiration and gratitude. If not, it's hard to see what we have to be grateful for: your contribution to the OSM database will be precisely zero. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
This is a lot of work (you should see the hammering I'm giving the history database) but will result in the minimal damnage to our data come April. I've decided to take a pragmatic view of it for now. I'm going to continue updating the street names, as they'll be my work I can transpose those names to OSM when the time comes. FOSM can drag them out of the CC version at the end. After the removal of the CC data I'll likely look at what's left and go from there. Thanks, David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
On 08/01/12 08:20, Nick Hocking wrote: David wrote I can always retag from my records after the split Hi David, It does seem that most of your work will survive. Those maxspeed edits done by bots (under the userid of JohnSmith or Rosscoe) will disappear without harm in April. A lot of them are incorrect so the accuracy of the OSM data will actually improve a bit. I have never run any maxspeed bot. In fact I actively started changing them manually to source:maxspeed which is what they should have been in the first place and where they were incorrect and I could apply correct data (from nearmap or survey) then I've changed that. I'm still manually changing maxspeed:source to source:maxspeed when ever I load a section of data into josm along with several other common errors like junction=roundabout oneway=yes but you'll never see it in osm. I also disagreed with what John did with this bot although I can see his logic in originally doing it and asked him via this list to re-run it so that it was source:maxspeed but he did not complete this. However some decliner edits will affect your work. If you look at the intersection of Leichardt Avenue and Amity Drive. It seems that you mapped this area well, in 2007. Then in 2009 the user JohnSmith and also Rosscoe have made minor improvements and tweaks. This has, in a lot of cases ended up with them being version1 owners of the roads you mapped. Impossible for either to be version one owners if we edited existing data. It could only be for new information added. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
If a way is cut to add a bridge or whatever the second part becomes yours as V1 but the nodes will still be the original contributors. Hence a seemingly good way with red nodes. This is outlined on the wiki under remapping. I am actively remapping areas which I have surveyed previously. I am suprised some mappers are still adding data to ways that are red because these will go I am certain, and I don't want to wait till April and still have to remap these areas. Peter W On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: On 08/01/12 08:20, Nick Hocking wrote: David wrote I can always retag from my records after the split Hi David, It does seem that most of your work will survive. Those maxspeed edits done by bots (under the userid of JohnSmith or Rosscoe) will disappear without harm in April. A lot of them are incorrect so the accuracy of the OSM data will actually improve a bit. I have never run any maxspeed bot. In fact I actively started changing them manually to source:maxspeed which is what they should have been in the first place and where they were incorrect and I could apply correct data (from nearmap or survey) then I've changed that. I'm still manually changing maxspeed:source to source:maxspeed when ever I load a section of data into josm along with several other common errors like junction=roundabout oneway=yes but you'll never see it in osm. I also disagreed with what John did with this bot although I can see his logic in originally doing it and asked him via this list to re-run it so that it was source:maxspeed but he did not complete this. However some decliner edits will affect your work. If you look at the intersection of Leichardt Avenue and Amity Drive. It seems that you mapped this area well, in 2007. Then in 2009 the user JohnSmith and also Rosscoe have made minor improvements and tweaks. This has, in a lot of cases ended up with them being version1 owners of the roads you mapped. Impossible for either to be version one owners if we edited existing data. It could only be for new information added. Cheers Ross __**_ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-auhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Confused by on-road bikelanes
We have bicycle awareness zones these have yellow symbols on the road and often have parked cars. Should these be tagged the same way? Peter On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.comwrote: If the bike lane is on the road the cars drive on and isn't separated by a barrier, tag the road as you normally would, then add cycleway=lane if the lane runs down both sides of the road. All these tags go on the same way both road and cyclelane together. If they aren't part of a cycle network don't add a lcn tag, and don't add it to a cycle route relation. Refer to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 1:03 PM, David Findlay da...@woodypointcomms.com.au wrote: I've read the tagging guidelines but am still a little confused. How should we tag marked on road bike lanes? Usually they don't have any particular name or network. Thanks, David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Apology and Re: Mass revert now??
On 08/01/12 11:11, Peter Watson wrote: If a way is cut to add a bridge or whatever the second part becomes yours as V1 but the nodes will still be the original contributors. Hence a seemingly good way with red nodes. This is outlined on the wiki under remapping. This is new information, ie the way that was originally here now has a bridge, roundabout, whatever, in the middle and is composed of the two ways either side of it. It's not as Nick suggest that the original information is changed in it's entirety only certain sections that are new info and hardly the fault of the person editing as it's part of the way osm works. I am actively remapping areas which I have surveyed previously. I am suprised some mappers are still adding data to ways that are red because these will go I am certain, and I don't want to wait till April and still have to remap these areas. Peter W Some people just don't subscribe to the mailing lists and so are unlikely to receive the information that these edits will be lost. Cheers Ross However some decliner edits will affect your work. If you look at the intersection of Leichardt Avenue and Amity Drive. It seems that you mapped this area well, in 2007. Then in 2009 the user JohnSmith and also Rosscoe have made minor improvements and tweaks. This has, in a lot of cases ended up with them being version1 owners of the roads you mapped. Impossible for either to be version one owners if we edited existing data. It could only be for new information added. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
