Greetings all, occasional mapper, first time poster. Lachlan, I live in Newcastle and cycle commute to Woodrising and have mapped a few bits and pieces around the lake. I personally would like to see your style of cycling routes on OCM but understand the "slippery slope argument" detailed below that would arise from different interpretations of the same route. For example when I link the Fernleigh track to Green Point the best route for me on my road bike is different to the route I take the kids on which involves a fair bit of footpath riding to avoid traffic hot spots. If you are interested I have been writing some pages for a website with links to maps on bikely, photos and route descriptions. (A project that gives a good excuse to go out cycling). Unfortunately I have not managed to make my webhosting service work, but if you send me an email (adrianplask...@hotmail.com) I will show you what I have done so far - I would appreciate comments and we could swap notes. The newcastle cycleways movement has some maps as well.
Ben and Ian, perhaps you or others can help me - With regard to tagging I find that a lot of information gets lost in this process. For example I have mapped some of the minor tracks around Belmont Lagoon that allow you to extend the Fernleigh track south to Swansea without going down the highway. I know which of these paths are suitable a road bike, a mountain bike, hybrid , young kids etc, but this information is lost in my mapping with the tags dirt/gravel/width in Potlach - is there a way of making this more nuanced? I imagine every mapper knows the same things about their tracks, but the reality is (I think) that if you have not visited the area it is impossible to know if a 1m dirt path is strewn with boulders and tree roots excluding hybrids or an easy well formed path for a 6 year old. I have found some MTB tagging guidelines in the wiki but these seem more suited to formal mountain bike parks like perhaps glenrock, and I have not found how to apply them in Potlach. If I downoad one of the other editors will these appear, and will they be renderd on the standard map ? More generally to the forum thanks to all those serious mappers who have contributed so much - I have been reading the posts over the last few months from time to time and have been amazed at the amount of work and passion that have been put into this project - its great. regards adrian > From: talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 > To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 12:00:06 +0100 > > Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to > talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? > (Lachlan Rogers) > 2. Re: Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? > (Ian Sergeant) > 3. Re: Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake Macquarie? > (Ben Kelley) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2012 22:09:04 +1000 > From: Lachlan Rogers <lach...@rogers.name> > To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org > Subject: [talk-au] Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake > Macquarie? > Message-ID: > <cadht9wb6qwtthzssjmzqfj4-noqvdwr3nmtq6wbafk97kt1...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I've recently moved back to Lake Macquarie after some years in Canberra, > and I'm delighted to find that there are more cycle paths around the > central coast and Lake Macquarie than I was previously aware of. > Unfortunately many of them are either incomplete or disconnected from each > other. > > I am wanting to scout out optimal on-road routes to connect cycle paths > into excellent recreational routes. For instance the recently opened > Fernleigh (Rail trail) Track ends in Belmont, and just a few kms away there > is a great path around Green Point. I want to tag a route (probably as > "lcn") through the streets of Belmont so that viewers can see how best to > join these rides together. To my knowledge there is no official > council-endorsed cycle route. > > I recognise some people may have a philosophical aversion to this, because > it is tagging based on usefulness rather than on what is "actually on the > ground". I feel, however, that we have an opportunity to scout out optimal > connections and start using them for cycling now, while we lobby councils > to make such routes "official". I would choose a tagging scheme along the > lines of "network=lcn" with "status=unofficial" or something so that these > routes could be located by a search algorithm if needed. > > I've spent a while looking around the web, and there are no decent cycling > maps of the region to be found. OSM and OpenCycleMap would be a superb > resource if we took the liberty of tagging "desired routes" such as I have > outlined. > > How do you feel about this suggestion? > > - Lachlan > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20120422/f29d6015/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 09:07:11 +1000 > From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > To: Lachlan Rogers <lach...@rogers.name> > Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake > Macquarie? > Message-ID: > <CALDa4YLDFw7oQgJA-BVh-LX6=egkfzvwmqsbwst4cuoe_wc...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I can see your argument, and no doubt having useful cycle routes available > is a good thing. > > However, I don't think personal ad-hoc cycle routes should be added to > OSM. It is a slippery slope, and OSM can't accommodation everyone's ideal > connecting route. > > Instead, I'd add the information (speed limits, road widths, residential > nature, cycle facilities (lanes, etc)) that would allow a typical cycle > router to be able to identify the connecting route between the two > cycleways. > > Personally, I think long term this is a better way to go anyway. Some of > the official cycle routes (particularly in Sydney) have poor cycle > facilities, and in the case of the currently tagged Concord to CBD cycleway > IMO is downright deadly. So many people have different opinions on what > makes a good cycle route for them, lets identify the features and get them > all into OSM, and then lets optimise the software to find the best way. > > There are lots of services to map personal favourite rides (bikely, > mapmyride, etc). > > Ian. > > On 22 April 2012 22:09, Lachlan Rogers <lach...@rogers.name> wrote: > > > I've recently moved back to Lake Macquarie after some years in Canberra, > > and I'm delighted to find that there are more cycle paths around the > > central coast and Lake Macquarie than I was previously aware of. > > Unfortunately many of them are either incomplete or disconnected from each > > other. > > > > I am wanting to scout out optimal on-road routes to connect cycle paths > > into excellent recreational routes. For instance the recently opened > > Fernleigh (Rail trail) Track ends in Belmont, and just a few kms away there > > is a great path around Green Point. I want to tag a route (probably as > > "lcn") through the streets of Belmont so that viewers can see how best to > > join these rides together. To my knowledge there is no official > > council-endorsed cycle route. > > > > I recognise some people may have a philosophical aversion to this, because > > it is tagging based on usefulness rather than on what is "actually on the > > ground". I feel, however, that we have an opportunity to scout out optimal > > connections and start using them for cycling now, while we lobby councils > > to make such routes "official". I would choose a tagging scheme along the > > lines of "network=lcn" with "status=unofficial" or something so that these > > routes could be located by a search algorithm if needed. > > > > I've spent a while looking around the web, and there are no decent cycling > > maps of the region to be found. OSM and OpenCycleMap would be a superb > > resource if we took the liberty of tagging "desired routes" such as I have > > outlined. > > > > How do you feel about this suggestion? > > > > - Lachlan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-au mailing list > > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20120423/0701fc2a/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:39:31 +1000 > From: Ben Kelley <ben.kel...@gmail.com> > To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+...@gmail.com> > Cc: talk-au@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [talk-au] Tagging for "unofficial" Cycle routes in Lake > Macquarie? > Message-ID: > <CAE4-2TKBdqyrE6PPFvgR=sw8oos7pd0pcalmu-p0c-qixc8...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi. > > I agree with Ian. > > Routing sites should be able to connect up disconnected SUPs in a sensible > manner. > > As an aside, it would be nice if sites like Bikely supported OSM as a > background. > > - Ben. > On Apr 23, 2012 9:07 AM, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I can see your argument, and no doubt having useful cycle routes available > > is a good thing. > > > > However, I don't think personal ad-hoc cycle routes should be added to > > OSM. It is a slippery slope, and OSM can't accommodation everyone's ideal > > connecting route. > > > > Instead, I'd add the information (speed limits, road widths, residential > > nature, cycle facilities (lanes, etc)) that would allow a typical cycle > > router to be able to identify the connecting route between the two > > cycleways. > > > > Personally, I think long term this is a better way to go anyway. Some of > > the official cycle routes (particularly in Sydney) have poor cycle > > facilities, and in the case of the currently tagged Concord to CBD cycleway > > IMO is downright deadly. So many people have different opinions on what > > makes a good cycle route for them, lets identify the features and get them > > all into OSM, and then lets optimise the software to find the best way. > > > > There are lots of services to map personal favourite rides (bikely, > > mapmyride, etc). > > > > Ian. > > > > On 22 April 2012 22:09, Lachlan Rogers <lach...@rogers.name> wrote: > > > >> I've recently moved back to Lake Macquarie after some years in Canberra, > >> and I'm delighted to find that there are more cycle paths around the > >> central coast and Lake Macquarie than I was previously aware of. > >> Unfortunately many of them are either incomplete or disconnected from each > >> other. > >> > >> I am wanting to scout out optimal on-road routes to connect cycle paths > >> into excellent recreational routes. For instance the recently opened > >> Fernleigh (Rail trail) Track ends in Belmont, and just a few kms away there > >> is a great path around Green Point. I want to tag a route (probably as > >> "lcn") through the streets of Belmont so that viewers can see how best to > >> join these rides together. To my knowledge there is no official > >> council-endorsed cycle route. > >> > >> I recognise some people may have a philosophical aversion to this, > >> because it is tagging based on usefulness rather than on what is "actually > >> on the ground". I feel, however, that we have an opportunity to scout out > >> optimal connections and start using them for cycling now, while we lobby > >> councils to make such routes "official". I would choose a tagging scheme > >> along the lines of "network=lcn" with "status=unofficial" or something so > >> that these routes could be located by a search algorithm if needed. > >> > >> I've spent a while looking around the web, and there are no decent > >> cycling maps of the region to be found. OSM and OpenCycleMap would be a > >> superb resource if we took the liberty of tagging "desired routes" such as > >> I have outlined. > >> > >> How do you feel about this suggestion? > >> > >> - Lachlan > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Talk-au mailing list > >> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-au mailing list > > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20120423/0d3546e5/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > > End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 > **************************************
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