Re: [talk-au] Blind obedience following routing tools.
On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, David Bannon wrote: > > I guess people are aware of this story, people in trouble for following > badly constructed maps - > > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-10/apple-maps-strands-motorists-looking-for-mildura/4418400 > > Looks like its to be the lead story on the abc news tonight. > > I bet we could all find examples in OSM that could cause similar > problems. > Yep. For better or worse, OSM doesn't inspire the same trust (or blind faith) that Apple does. I discovered this weird error on Bing Maps yesterday: ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Blind obedience following routing tools.
(whoops, wrong button) The weird error on Bing Maps: http://binged.it/RlH1PC The real Mt Buller can be seen 50km to the north. This error means if you route from Mansfield to Mt Buller (less than a 1 hour drive) it takes all the way back to Melbourne then via Licola - over 7 hours. Steve On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:03 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:48 PM, David Bannon wrote: > >> >> I guess people are aware of this story, people in trouble for following >> badly constructed maps - >> >> >> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-10/apple-maps-strands-motorists-looking-for-mildura/4418400 >> >> Looks like its to be the lead story on the abc news tonight. >> >> I bet we could all find examples in OSM that could cause similar >> problems. >> > > Yep. For better or worse, OSM doesn't inspire the same trust (or blind > faith) that Apple does. > > I discovered this weird error on Bing Maps yesterday: > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] cities changed to towns
Hi, some Australian places have changed from cities to towns on; changeset was: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14217241 I've emailed to the editor to ask the source for the change as I believe some are now incorrect. I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers are cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there others, in other states, within this changeset that should have stayed as is? Wikipedia is not the best reference material I know, but they have the Qld ones I mentioned as cities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia Additionally, I think some of the others should to be tagged cities, even if not officially, under the Aus tagging guidelines at: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#City.2C_Town_or_Village.3F So looking at the tagging guidelines, haven't we agreed to tag by population size or significance in remote areas? Here is a populated list of places by population for Qld that could be useful any discussion: http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=f&sc=lg&st=3&cmd=sp Cheers, chas ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
Hi Chris, Interesting topic - sadly the wiki just acknowledges the lack of an answer. My take is that the distinction between village/town/city really only matters for the purpose of rendering anyway - any more sophisticated use of the data is going to use population figures to make its own decision about how to classify towns. So I think it's ok to be a bit loose and subjective with our definitions. Hard for me to comment on the QLD ones. The Victorian ones are Warrnambool, Sale and Mildura. W and M definitely sense as cities than towns. They're "major regional centres", and much more significant than towns nearby. Sale is more lineball (although Wikipedia counts it) - nearby Bairnsdale should be a city though. You see the effect it has on Mapnik here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.74&lon=145.31&zoom=8&layers=M It's definitely wrong having Sale show up at that zoom but not Bairnsdale. But the more I look at the Wikipedia list (counting 18 cities outside Melbourne), the more I think it would make sense to mark all of those as city. None of them seem out of place subjectively to me. I'm not clear on where the list on Wikipedia was derived from though. If you compare the list by population against the ones designated "city", some omissions are Echuca, Warragul, Bacchus Marsh, Ocean Grove-Barwon Heads. Not a big deal though. Steve On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Chris Barham wrote: > Hi, > some Australian places have changed from cities to towns on; > changeset was: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14217241 > > I've emailed to the editor to ask the source for the change as I believe > some are now incorrect. > > I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers are > cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there others, in > other states, within this changeset that should have stayed as is? > > Wikipedia is not the best reference material I know, but they have the Qld > ones I mentioned as cities: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia > > Additionally, I think some of the others should to be tagged cities, even > if not officially, under the Aus tagging guidelines at: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#City.2C_Town_or_Village.3F > > So looking at the tagging guidelines, haven't we agreed to tag by > population size or significance in remote areas? > Here is a populated list of places by population for Qld that could be > useful any discussion: > http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=f&sc=lg&st=3&cmd=sp > > Cheers, > chas > > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
According to NSW Government Gazette 1885, vol. I. NSW Government. 1885-03-20 "Goulburn was officially proclaimed a City on 20 March 1885" This user has changed Goulburn from a city to a town amazing ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
On 11/12/12 09:17, Chris Barham wrote: I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers are cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there others, in other states, within this changeset that should have stayed as is? I remember the fact that Warwick officially became a city sometime in the early to mid 70s. I was there at the time. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
On 11/12/12 13:26, John Henderson wrote: > On 11/12/12 09:17, Chris Barham wrote: > >> I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers >> are cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there >> others, in other states, within this changeset that should have >> stayed as is? > > I remember the fact that Warwick officially became a city sometime in > the early to mid 70s. I was there at the time. > > John Checking the state archives and it looks like it happened in :- Warwick - April 1936 Charters Towers - April 1909 Gympie - January 1905 Maryborough - January 1905 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
On 11/12/12 15:02, Michael James wrote: Warwick - April 1936 Thanks - it must have been an anniversary celebration that I remember from the mid 70s. They certainly made a fuss about being a city. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
I feel confident enough to comment on Devonport and Burnie in Tasmania. I've always heard them classed as Tasmania's third and fourth cities. The council names are actually Devonport City Council and Burnie City Council. Town just doesn't seem like the right classification for them, Ulverstone is more a large town to me. On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Chris Barham wrote: > Hi, > some Australian places have changed from cities to towns on; > changeset was: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14217241 > > I've emailed to the editor to ask the source for the change as I believe > some are now incorrect. > > I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers are > cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there others, in > other states, within this changeset that should have stayed as is? > > Wikipedia is not the best reference material I know, but they have the Qld > ones I mentioned as cities: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia > > Additionally, I think some of the others should to be tagged cities, even > if not officially, under the Aus tagging guidelines at: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#City.2C_Town_or_Village.3F > > So looking at the tagging guidelines, haven't we agreed to tag by > population size or significance in remote areas? > Here is a populated list of places by population for Qld that could be > useful any discussion: > http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=f&sc=lg&st=3&cmd=sp > > Cheers, > chas > > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] cities changed to towns
Ok, but I don't think we should get hung up on the coincidence between the Australian official meaning of "city" and the tag "place=city". (By coincidence, I mean, if we happened to speak some other language, obviously there'd be no official designation of "city".) So...what do we want place=city to refer to? Steve On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Michael James wrote: > On 11/12/12 13:26, John Henderson wrote: > > On 11/12/12 09:17, Chris Barham wrote: > > > >> I really do think Gympie, Maryborough, Warwick and Charters Towers > >> are cities, and should have remained tagged as such. Are there > >> others, in other states, within this changeset that should have > >> stayed as is? > > > > I remember the fact that Warwick officially became a city sometime in > > the early to mid 70s. I was there at the time. > > > > John > > Checking the state archives and it looks like it happened in :- > > Warwick - April 1936 > Charters Towers - April 1909 > Gympie - January 1905 > Maryborough - January 1905 > > > ___ > Talk-au mailing list > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
