[talk-au] Bridleways and tagging rail trails

2013-10-01 Thread Steve Bennett
Nick Barker sent me a message through openstreetmap.org - hope you don't
mind me replying here:

I've just been going through some edits and i noticed you changed the
Tyers rail trail back to a path from a bridleway and just was wondering
why.

The reason i tagged it as a bridleway as apparently on the rail trail
website it says horses are allowed. Looking at trail hierarchies i
therefore tagged it as a bridleway as

walkers only = path
 walkers and cyclists (obviously path for MTB only but its definitely
doable on a hybrid - the rail trail website err well on the side of
caution) = cycleway
 walkers cyclists and horses = bridleway. (note this is a UK/european
system as far as i know)
i asked this on the forum and people sort of agreed in the absence of any
specific aussie system this made the most sense.

Likewise for the Walhalla rail trail too.
What are you thoughts on this?

Thanks for raising this. My thoughts are that the basic tag should be as
representative as possible. There are lots of different websites, apps etc
that use openstreetmap, so we should tag whatever is most useful.
Cycling-focused maps will tend to show highway=cycleway and ignore
highway=bridleway. I don't know if there are equestrian-focused maps -
horseriding is a pretty fringe activity compared to cycling.

A bridleway is not just a path that horse riders can go on, it's a bit
unique. Typically the surface is very soft, like grass or sand, and they
often have cavalettis to stop other kinds of traffic. Although you might be
able to ride bikes on some bridleways, that wouldn't be the default
assumption. We do have a few bridleways around the place, mostly in outer
outer suburbs with established horse riding areas, like Lysterfield,
Victoria.

So, the tagging that makes the most sense to me:
highway=cycleway: a path that is designed for (non-mtb) cycling (and nearly
always caters for pedestrians too). If horses are allowed, then horse=yes
highway=bridleway: a path that is specifically designed for horse riders,
pretty much to the exclusion of others.
highway=footway: a good quality path for pedestrians
highway=path: other paths that could be used by hikers or mountain bikers,
that aren't of the same quality as a cycleway/footway.

Tagging a rail trail as a bridleway doesn't make much sense to me for a few
reasons:
1) The number of horse riders is a tiny fraction of the number of cyclists
2) Some rail trails have sections that split between a designated bridleway
(off the railway alignment) and the main rail trail. Tagging the main rail
trail as highway=cycleway, horse=yes/no (and then a separate
highway=bridleway) is clear and makes sense. Switching the main rail trail
from highway=bridleway to highway=cycleway would be kind of bizarre.

For example:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.70318/143.63900layers=N

Steve
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Re: [talk-au] Problems saving input to OSM

2013-10-01 Thread Grant Slater
Hi Guys,

Happy to help diagnose this with someone. Does this effect anyone using JOSM?
Easiest way is to contact me in channel #osm-dev on irc: http://irc.osm.org/

Regards
 Grant
 Part of OSM sysadmin team



On 1 October 2013 05:56, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
 Potlatch2 or ID? If Potlatch2, I have similar issues - I just keep trying,
 and eventually it saves.

 Steve


 On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Arthur Geeson ag200...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I have just arrived back in Australia following several months in the UK
 and have been logging on to OSM with no troubles but when I try to save my
 map changes the save just seems to hang for most of the time.  I have had a
 couple of good sessions where it has saved well.  Any one one able to help?

 Thanks Arthur (geesona)

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