Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney - and WA

[Ian Steer]

>Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2018 22:10:19 +1000
>From: "Joel H." 
>To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org, d...@thinkmoult.com
>Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney
>Message-ID: <884c4fa4-16cd-893d-8b62-3620f023e...@disroot.org>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>OSM is permitted to use the LPI Base Map, This contains street number where 
>they are.
>However I am not from NSW so I can't say how accurate LPI is. You are best to 
>do a ground survey, the Android app StreetComplete is good for this as long as 
>the houses have been mapped already.
>If you wish to use LPI, you can switch under imagery in JOSM (and maybe iD)

Does anyone know if there is a West Australian equivalent to the NSW LPI Base 
map ?




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[talk-au] Perth Canning Rv wetland Relation: 8337801

[Ian Steer]

>Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 10:15:02 +1000
>From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
To: talk-au 
Subject: [talk-au] Perth Canning Rv wetland Relation: 8337801
>Hi,
>I have repaired Relation: 8337801  - wetland marsh that had been altered by an 
>Apple person.
>It was identified by OSMinspector as a probable error (and boy was it).
>It is now closed and has no crossing members. So technically better. But I am 
>far from local .. so it lacks verification.
>If someone knows the area they should be able to do better than my poor 
>attempts based on rough satellite views.
>I also included more bits in the Relation: Canning River (8337802) - makes it 
>easier on making the wetland relation.
>Thanks for any local help there.

I live reasonably close to that area, but verifying it is a bit arbitrary - 
where is the edge of a wetland?  as seen in summer? winter? etc.
Also, you can't go tramping around in a swamp to do a survey - it really has to 
be done from imagery.

I think your efforts will do just fine - thanks

Ian




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Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney

[Andrew Harvey]

Thanks for the links Andy. Marc is correct, I meant we can only use the
Imagery layer, not any of ESRI's other basemaps like their Streets basemap,
etc.

On 5 June 2018 at 02:23, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 03/06/18 20:12, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>
> On 3 June 2018 at 21:48, Dion Moult  wrote:
>>
>> I've started using OSM more and more and I find it frustrating that many
>> house addresses are not available in OSM. I would like to help by tracing
>> many houses using ESRI as a base map (feel free to audit my history on OSM
>> under the name "Moult").  I would also like to add address information
>> (addr:housenumber and addr:street) to these ways however I don't think that
>> we are meant to be copying from Google maps. Is there another map source
>> that has addresses that we can use? Perhaps some form of government
>> cadastre map? Is that allowed?
>>
>
> What do you mean by "ESRI as a base map" do you mean the "ESRI World
> Imagery" available in ID and JOSM? ESRI's map layers are not allowed,
> just like Google Maps or Google Street View which must not be used as we
> don't have the copyright permissions to use these.
>
>
> As a bit of background, see https://github.com/Esri/
> arcgis-osm-editor/issues/104 and https://www.esri.com/arcgis-
> blog/products/arcgis-hub/constituent-engagement/esri-world-imagery-in-
> openstreetmap/?rmedium=redirect=blogs.esri.
> com%2Fesri%2Farcgis%2F2017%2F08%2F24%2Fworld-imagery-in-osm .  I'm not a
> lawyer, but that github issue has contributions both from ESRI and members
> of OSMF's LWG, so I'd definitely read it.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
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Re: [talk-au] Postcodes in South Australia

[Andrew Harvey]

Good point Andrew. Here's the link in case others were interested
https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/suburb-boundaries. It's CC BY 4.0
licensed and we do have the waiver completed so are free to use (just need
to ensure we add the attribution to the wiki).

While it's a good approximation, it's not exact postcode boundaries, but
good enough is better than nothing.

On 4 June 2018 at 19:17, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

> The SA suburbs dataset has post codes in it. However it would appear that
> this was not included in the early import:
>
> http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/zir
>
> On 04/06/18 17:03, Alex Sims wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I’m getting increasingly frustrated with how my GPS (OpenStreetMap on
>> Garmin via mkgmap) and the OpenStreetMap Nominatim handle postcodes in
>> South Australia with a lot of defaulting to 5000 (Adelaide CBD)
>>
>> I am assuming that a given suburb or locality maps to a single postcode
>> (excluding institution’s which I don’t think we care about) but that a
>> postcode my map to more than one suburb or locality
>>
>> Given that I can see two ways of doing this (manual editing):
>>
>>  1. Find a sign, say outside a post office in a suburb/locality and use
>> that value for that suburb/locality
>>  2. Use the ABS definitions as a guide
>>
>> Any comments as to things I’ve not thought of with regards to
>> licensing/accuracy?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] I made my own administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

G'day Joel

Just had a look & Ipswich City Council do have an online map
http://maps.ipswich.qld.gov.au/connect/analyst/?mapcfg=Boundaries, based,
strangely enough, on something called OpenStreetMap! :-), & apparently
using CC-BY-2.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/

Maybe contact ICC re getting permission to use their map, so we can improve
our map, which will in turn improve their map? :-)


Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/06/18 20:12, Andrew Harvey wrote:
On 3 June 2018 at 21:48, Dion Moult > wrote:


I've started using OSM more and more and I find it frustrating
that many house addresses are not available in OSM. I would like
to help by tracing many houses using ESRI as a base map (feel free
to audit my history on OSM under the name "Moult").  I would also
like to add address information (addr:housenumber and addr:street)
to these ways however I don't think that we are meant to be
copying from Google maps. Is there another map source that has
addresses that we can use? Perhaps some form of government
cadastre map? Is that allowed?


What do you mean by "ESRI as a base map" do you mean the "ESRI World 
Imagery" available in ID and JOSM? ESRI's map layers are not allowed, 
just like Google Maps or Google Street View which must not be used as 
we don't have the copyright permissions to use these.




As a bit of background, see 
https://github.com/Esri/arcgis-osm-editor/issues/104 and 
https://www.esri.com/arcgis-blog/products/arcgis-hub/constituent-engagement/esri-world-imagery-in-openstreetmap/?rmedium=redirect=blogs.esri.com%2Fesri%2Farcgis%2F2017%2F08%2F24%2Fworld-imagery-in-osm 
.  I'm not a lawyer, but that github issue has contributions both from 
ESRI and members of OSMF's LWG, so I'd definitely read it.


Best Regards,

Andy
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney

[Marc Gemis]

Both Andrew and the wiki say that you can only use ESRI World Imagery
(aka World Imagery map). You are not allowed to use anything else from
Esri.

m

On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 7:38 AM,   wrote:
> From: Andrew Harvey 
> Sent: Monday, 4 June 2018 05:13
> To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Mapping houses and addresses in Sydney
>
>
>
> What do you mean by "ESRI as a base map" do you mean the "ESRI World
> Imagery" available in ID and JOSM? ESRI's map layers are not allowed, just
> like Google Maps or Google Street View which must not be used as we don't
> have the copyright permissions to use these.
>
>
>
>
>
> That statement does not seem to match the information on the wiki?
>
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Esri#Legal_permissions
>
>
>
> Using Esri imagery in editors
>
> The easiest way to do this is to select the “Esri satellite imagery” layer
> as an option in either iD or JOSM.
>
> Legal permissions
>
> Esri and its imagery contributors grant Users the non-exclusive right to use
> the World Imagery map to trace features and validate edits in the creation
> of vector data. Users that create vector data from the World Imagery map may
> want to publicly share that vector data through a GIS data clearinghouse of
> its own or through another open data site. This public sharing could be
> achieved through ArcGIS Open Data or the OpenStreetMap (OSM) Initiative. For
> ArcGIS users that want to contribute such vector data to OSM, Esri provides
> applications and services directly accessible from ArcGIS platform. Users
> acknowledge that any vector data contributed to OSM is then governed by and
> released under the OpenStreetMap License (e.g. ODbL).
>
> Except for the additional limited rights granted above, any and all other
> uses of the World Imagery map remain subject to the terms and conditions set
> forth in the Esri Master Agreement or Terms of Use, as applicable. Esri and
> its imagery contributors retain all right, title, and interest in and to
> their respective imagery data contributed to the World Imagery map. (source)
>
> Attribution should be in either source=Esri or imagery_used=Esri tags on a
> changeset.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] I made my own administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich

[Joel H.]

I would add the tag source= ... say something like 'personal knowledge, better 
local knowledge appreciated'.

I will do this.

By the way .. it is better to alter something to what you want rather than 
deleting the old and making a new,
that way people can track the history of the object backwards more easily .. 
and see what changes have been made.

Sorry, I explained poorly. The old data was an unauthorised import, also
half of the way was missing.

How much of this changeset needs to be undone???

Probably none, since no data was copied from Wikipedia. I only used it
for research, to find which settlements came under Ipswich.

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Re: [talk-au] Postcodes in South Australia

[Andrew Davidson]

The SA suburbs dataset has post codes in it. However it would appear 
that this was not included in the early import:


http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/zir

On 04/06/18 17:03, Alex Sims wrote:

Hi,

I’m getting increasingly frustrated with how my GPS (OpenStreetMap on 
Garmin via mkgmap) and the OpenStreetMap Nominatim handle postcodes in 
South Australia with a lot of defaulting to 5000 (Adelaide CBD)


I am assuming that a given suburb or locality maps to a single postcode 
(excluding institution’s which I don’t think we care about) but that a 
postcode my map to more than one suburb or locality


Given that I can see two ways of doing this (manual editing):

 1. Find a sign, say outside a post office in a suburb/locality and use
that value for that suburb/locality
 2. Use the ABS definitions as a guide

Any comments as to things I’ve not thought of with regards to 
licensing/accuracy?


Alex



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[talk-au] Postcodes in South Australia

[Alex Sims]

Hi,

I’m getting increasingly frustrated with how my GPS (OpenStreetMap on Garmin 
via mkgmap) and the OpenStreetMap Nominatim handle postcodes in South Australia 
with a lot of defaulting to 5000 (Adelaide CBD)

I am assuming that a given suburb or locality maps to a single postcode 
(excluding institution’s which I don’t think we care about) but that a postcode 
my map to more than one suburb or locality

Given that I can see two ways of doing this (manual editing):

  1.  Find a sign, say outside a post office in a suburb/locality and use that 
value for that suburb/locality
  2.  Use the ABS definitions as a guide

Any comments as to things I’ve not thought of with regards to 
licensing/accuracy?

Alex
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Re: [talk-au] I made my own administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich

[Warin]

E ... in your changeset you state
source=OSM Data, Local Knowledge, Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not allowed.. not comparable with OSM licensing.

How much of this changeset needs to be undone???



On 04/06/18 16:32, Warin wrote:

On 04/06/18 16:16, Joel H. wrote:

Just letting the mailing list know that I decided to make my own
administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich.

You can see it here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8348274

Sadly towards the south and west of Ipswich it was hard to work out
where the boarder truly is. If anyone has better local knowledge please
correct the way accuracy.



I would add the tag source= ... say something like 'personal 
knowledge, better local knowledge appreciated'.


That way if anyone comes across it they can decide for themselves if 
they wan to alter it.


By the way .. it is better to alter something to what you want rather 
than deleting the old and making a new,
that way people can track the history of the object backwards more 
easily .. and see what changes have been made.








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Re: [talk-au] I made my own administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich

[Warin]

On 04/06/18 16:16, Joel H. wrote:

Just letting the mailing list know that I decided to make my own
administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich.

You can see it here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8348274

Sadly towards the south and west of Ipswich it was hard to work out
where the boarder truly is. If anyone has better local knowledge please
correct the way accuracy.



I would add the tag source= ... say something like 'personal knowledge, better 
local knowledge appreciated'.

That way if anyone comes across it they can decide for themselves if they wan 
to alter it.

By the way .. it is better to alter something to what you want rather than 
deleting the old and making a new,
that way people can track the history of the object backwards more easily .. 
and see what changes have been made.




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[talk-au] I made my own administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich

[Joel H.]

Just letting the mailing list know that I decided to make my own
administrative boarder for the City of Ipswich.

You can see it here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8348274

Sadly towards the south and west of Ipswich it was hard to work out
where the boarder truly is. If anyone has better local knowledge please
correct the way accuracy.


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