Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Phil Wyatt]

Thanks Warin,

 

I have updated the highway with the details. Would you like to check and then 
remove the previous runway polygon? Not sure it has a specific ‘name’ for the 
runway. I am interested to see how it renders with those details attached.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8966/127.6155

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 4:38 PM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

On 27/12/19 09:44, Phil Wyatt wrote:

Hi Folks,

 

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips which are 
pretty common in Australia

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186

 

There now exists tagging for them 

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dhighway_strip


I think the given example is poor. The 'name' is more of a description. Nothing 
to say this is an emergency strip only - the local cops need to remove roadside 
signs and posts for aircraft to land.. and they need to close the highway.  The 
highway lacks the correct tags... 

Note I have never seen any of them on an unpaved road, I would think the RFDS 
would request the road section be paved, and the local council would be hard 
put to say no. 

 

In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on other 
mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont even have roads 
in some of these areas. 

 

Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be enough in most 
cases.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674


I think just map the runway aeroway=runway usually with surface=unpaved - no 
airport boundaries, just use the node for the 'airport'.


Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult. 

The person who use to run the airfield died. The new lot have caused some 
controversy with their plans .. 


https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/potential-to-scare-tourists-away-bitter-dispute-engulfs-katoomba-airfield-20190830-p52m9x.html


I expect it is fairly busy now with the fire fighting going on. 






 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nemanja Bračko    
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
To: Graeme Fitzpatrick   
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List   

Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

Answers are in line.

 

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> > wrote:




 

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals at the 
moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.

 

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories we 
would use aerial imagery only. 

 

@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a 
airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway (zebras at 
the beginning and at the end)? 

 

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of you 
to be marked as a polygon.

 

Where a polygon cannot reasonably be determined usually the runway/s can be 
made out - so just map the runways. 

 

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached 
node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so we 
want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just blindly 
add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you. 

 

Thanks,

Nemanja

 

 

Thanks

 

Graeme






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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 15:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.
>

I notice that the airfield is marked as "disused", but in the article, the
new owner says they've had chopper flights come in over the last year?

Should it be re-marked as an active helipad, at least?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Local Government Address changes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Assuming for a moment that it is actually open data (why else would they be
offering it?), could they mail it directly to this mailing list?

That would, of course, necessitate them signing up to the list, but tht
should be doable?

Thanks

Graeme

>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Warin]

On 27/12/19 09:44, Phil Wyatt wrote:


Hi Folks,

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips 
which are pretty common in Australia


https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186



There now exists tagging for them

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:aeroway%3Dhighway_strip


I think the given example is poor. The 'name' is more of a description. 
Nothing to say this is an emergency strip only - the local cops need to 
remove roadside signs and posts for aircraft to land.. and they need to 
close the highway.  The highway lacks the correct tags...


Note I have never seen any of them on an unpaved road, I would think the 
RFDS would request the road section be paved, and the local council 
would be hard put to say no.


In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on 
other mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont 
even have roads in some of these areas.


Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be 
enough in most cases.


https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674



I think just map the runway aeroway=runway usually with surface=unpaved 
- no airport boundaries, just use the node for the 'airport'.



Node: Katoomba Airfield (1042094263) is a little difficult.

The person who use to run the airfield died. The new lot have caused 
some controversy with their plans ..



https://www.smh.com.au/environment/conservation/potential-to-scare-tourists-away-bitter-dispute-engulfs-katoomba-airfield-20190830-p52m9x.html


I expect it is fairly busy now with the fire fighting going on.




Cheers - Phil

*From:*Nemanja Bračko 
*Sent:* Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
*To:* Graeme Fitzpatrick 
*Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
*Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

Answers are in line.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:



On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com>> wrote:

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any
other signals at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW
where we have a base map.

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the 
states/territories we would use aerial imagery only.


@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize
tarmac on a airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the
end of the runway (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to 
all of you to be marked as a polygon.




Where a polygon cannot reasonably be determined usually the runway/s can 
be made out - so just map the runways.



Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with
attached node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not 
all), so we want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not 
keen to just blindly add polygons, so this is the reason why we are 
asking all of you.


Thanks,

Nemanja

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Local Government Address changes

[Andrew Harvey]

In South Australia neither the state government nor any of the local
governments publish their address data as open data, since it's not open
data there's no possibility of importing it, so all we could really do with
these notifications is create notes of areas that someone local might want
to go and checkout. The usefulness of that will depend if people on the
ground would find that helpful or not?

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019 at 12:45, Alex Sims  wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
>
> A number of statutory bodies get notification from Local Government
> Agencies of addressing changes (think, fire, police, etc). In the case of
> one LGA it is a monthly spreadsheet of mainly subdivisions of existing
> addresses and some new ones. They are willing to consider adding
> OpenStreetMap to their mailing list. Two questions for the list
>
>- Is this of value to the project? I think it is as it shows changes
>that are necessary once addressing is done and also new building activity.
>- Is there an email they can send Excel files to? Want to make it as
>easy as possible. They could use my address but it would be nice to have
>something like address-changes-south-austra...@openstreetmap.org to
>formalise it.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> Alex
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[talk-au] Local Government Address changes

[Alex Sims]

Hi,

A number of statutory bodies get notification from Local Government Agencies of 
addressing changes (think, fire, police, etc). In the case of one LGA it is a 
monthly spreadsheet of mainly subdivisions of existing addresses and some new 
ones. They are willing to consider adding OpenStreetMap to their mailing list. 
Two questions for the list

  *   Is this of value to the project? I think it is as it shows changes that 
are necessary once addressing is done and also new building activity.
  *   Is there an email they can send Excel files to? Want to make it as easy 
as possible. They could use my address but it would be nice to have something 
like 
address-changes-south-austra...@openstreetmap.org
 to formalise it.


Thoughts?

Alex
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Phil Wyatt]

Hi Folks,

 

You also need to consider how you deal with emergency road airstrips which are 
pretty common in Australia

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/-31.8969/127.6186

 

In general I would say that many of the outback strips wont appear on other 
mapping software (certainly not Apple maps) as they often wont even have roads 
in some of these areas. 

 

Maybe mapping threshold to threshold and the graded area will be enough in most 
cases.

 

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?node=1042093864#map=16/-25.2385/122.0674

 

Cheers - Phil

 

From: Nemanja Bračko  
Sent: Friday, 27 December 2019 9:16 AM
To: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

 

Answers are in line.

 

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> > wrote:




 

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

@Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals at the 
moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.

 

So this would only be NSW?

No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories we 
would use aerial imagery only. 

 

@others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a 
airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway (zebras at 
the beginning and at the end)? 

 

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of you 
to be marked as a polygon.

 

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached 
node suffice?

We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so we 
want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just blindly 
add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you. 

 

Thanks,

Nemanja

 

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Nemanja Bračko]

Answers are in line.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:10 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:
>
>>
>> @Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals
>> at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.
>>
>
> So this would only be NSW?
>
No, we would like to add across AU. For the rest of the states/territories
we would use aerial imagery only.

>
>
>> @others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a
>> airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway
>> (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?
>>
>
> But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!
>
We know that, just want to establish base line what is acceptable to all of
you to be marked as a polygon.

>
> Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with
> attached node suffice?
>
We can see all other competitors have polygons in most cases (not all), so
we want to increase the value of OSM maps as well. We are not keen to just
blindly add polygons, so this is the reason why we are asking all of you.

Thanks,
Nemanja


> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
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Re: [talk-au] Adding polygons of the aerodromes

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 at 17:33, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

>
> @Berjo, as I've noted in my first email we do not have any other signals
> at the moment except imagery, and except for NSW where we have a base map.
>

So this would only be NSW?


> @others, is it okay to make a polygon when we can recognize tarmac on a
> airstrip and when we can clearly see start and the end of the runway
> (zebras at the beginning and at the end)?
>

But not all airfields / strips are tarmac, with runway markings!

Do you need to draw a polygon? Wouldn't just a runway marking with attached
node suffice?

Thanks

Graeme
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