Re: [talk-au] Mapping "off track" hiking routes

[Andrew Harvey]

Plus on the existing mapped path you can add informal=yes
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:informal to say it's not a formal
path.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 22:11, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> Generally I'd just leave a gap in the highway=footway/path where it
> starts/ends, but others might add a path here "tagging for the router" so
> that routing works, but if that's done it must have trail_visibility=no (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:trail_visibility) which says it's
> a pathless path.
>
> However looking at
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/813749214#map=14/-35.7301/148.5665 it
> does look like there is a path already mapped there, so perhaps we need a
> better way to say the signage says don't use the existing track, instead go
> off track and find your own way, but hard to do when there is a worn path
> already though.
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 19:07, Brendan Barnes  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Hoping for some advice please. There's a few sections of the Australian
>> Alps Walking Track official route that are specifically "off track", that
>> is, there is no formal hiking path and hikers are requested by the National
>> Parks signage at both ends of these wilderness sections to navigate from a
>> compass bearing or visible landmark, till the track resumes at the other
>> side.
>>
>> I haven't been able to find a standard for "hiking routes" on OSM or the
>> Aussie tagging guidelines .
>>
>> For one section I tagged Way 813749214
>>  as route=hiking and
>> nothing else so far, and made it part of the AAWT relation.
>>
>> Is there a better way to map "off track" hiking routes? Or are there
>> other examples of where this occurs?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> ..Brendan
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Re: [talk-au] Mapping "off track" hiking routes

[Andrew Harvey]

Generally I'd just leave a gap in the highway=footway/path where it
starts/ends, but others might add a path here "tagging for the router" so
that routing works, but if that's done it must have trail_visibility=no (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:trail_visibility) which says it's a
pathless path.

However looking at
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/813749214#map=14/-35.7301/148.5665 it
does look like there is a path already mapped there, so perhaps we need a
better way to say the signage says don't use the existing track, instead go
off track and find your own way, but hard to do when there is a worn path
already though.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 19:07, Brendan Barnes  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Hoping for some advice please. There's a few sections of the Australian
> Alps Walking Track official route that are specifically "off track", that
> is, there is no formal hiking path and hikers are requested by the National
> Parks signage at both ends of these wilderness sections to navigate from a
> compass bearing or visible landmark, till the track resumes at the other
> side.
>
> I haven't been able to find a standard for "hiking routes" on OSM or the
> Aussie tagging guidelines .
>
> For one section I tagged Way 813749214
>  as route=hiking and nothing
> else so far, and made it part of the AAWT relation.
>
> Is there a better way to map "off track" hiking routes? Or are there other
> examples of where this occurs?
>
> Thanks,
> ..Brendan
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[Warren]

Please share with me John
Regards
Warren

On 21/10/2020 4:48 pm, John Bryant wrote:
Yes, agreed. At a quick look, the quality seems to be better in some 
areas than others, some of the suburban areas of Perth come out pretty 
well. Anyway, if it's useful to anyone, I now have a folder of ~1700 
.osm files for all the suburbs in Perth, happy to share them if anyone 
wants. I'll probably do some tinkering with them, as a JOSM learning 
exercise.


Cheers
John


On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:49, Warren > wrote:


That was  also my plan John.  The Kings Park data set looks like a
perfect example.  I can load that as a layer and compare the
existing OSM data in another layer.   It is not that difficult to
select a number of building traces at a time and bring them in. 
However the Kings Park data is already showing some
inconsistencies.  For Example Fraser's Restaurant, circular
building is showing as orthogonal.  Many of the other buildings
are also incorrect.
Oh well perhaps it is just another tool that can sometimes be useful.
Good effort anyway


On 21/10/2020 3:12 pm, John Bryant wrote:

Seems sensible to me, I'd personally be shying away from imports
without more knowledge of how that works. I was thinking about
biting off very small chunks (even suburbs may be too big for
this) and manually going over them, making sure to not overwrite
existing buildings, and checking them individually to make sure
they match up with relevant imagery. Is there a recommended
workflow for this?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:02, Daniel O'Connor
mailto:daniel.ocon...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Just to flag a note of caution here - I'd recommend small
scale evaluations /only/ at this stage; or if you do bigger
test imports; in a sandbox environment.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sandbox_for_editing#Experiment_with_the_API_.28advanced.29



If there is interest; later we can create a bunch of tasking
manager jobs for importing small chunks at a time; plus write
up the plan(s) as needed


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM John Bryant
mailto:johnwbry...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of
the WA suburbs [1], see attached small example file for
King's Park. Does something like this work? I can drag
and drop them into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if they're
formatted or attributed correctly to be most useful.

Cheers
John

[1]

https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details



On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren
mailto:war...@specialtyfeeds.com.au>> wrote:

Hi John
I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as
a layer would be fine.   I can then select, copy and
paste the tracings into an active layer for upload,
checking  as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by
hand.
I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but
say Perth or the South West of WA may be enough of a
reduction.
Thanks

On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:

Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What
would be a good size for a chunk? What would be a
useful format?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren
mailto:war...@specialtyfeeds.com.au>> wrote:

Hi

I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where
minimal buildings have been
traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in
my area, lets face it
hand tracing is not much fun  and very time
consuming.  I think some
inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be
modified as they become apparent.
The data at
https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints

is
much too large for me to handle.
Is  someone more skillful than me able to break
this data set into bite
sized chunks?


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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[John Bryant]

Yes, agreed. At a quick look, the quality seems to be better in some areas
than others, some of the suburban areas of Perth come out pretty well.
Anyway, if it's useful to anyone, I now have a folder of ~1700 .osm files
for all the suburbs in Perth, happy to share them if anyone wants. I'll
probably do some tinkering with them, as a JOSM learning exercise.

Cheers
John


On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:49, Warren  wrote:

> That was  also my plan John.  The Kings Park data set looks like a perfect
> example.  I can load that as a layer and compare the existing OSM data in
> another layer.   It is not that difficult to select a number of building
> traces at a time and bring them in.  However the Kings Park data is already
> showing some inconsistencies.  For Example Fraser's Restaurant, circular
> building is showing as orthogonal.  Many of the other buildings are also
> incorrect.
> Oh well perhaps it is just another tool that can sometimes be useful.
> Good effort anyway
>
>
> On 21/10/2020 3:12 pm, John Bryant wrote:
>
> Seems sensible to me, I'd personally be shying away from imports without
> more knowledge of how that works. I was thinking about biting off very
> small chunks (even suburbs may be too big for this) and manually going over
> them, making sure to not overwrite existing buildings, and checking them
> individually to make sure they match up with relevant imagery. Is there a
> recommended workflow for this?
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:02, Daniel O'Connor 
> wrote:
>
>> Just to flag a note of caution here - I'd recommend small scale
>> evaluations *only* at this stage; or if you do bigger test imports; in a
>> sandbox environment.
>>
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sandbox_for_editing#Experiment_with_the_API_.28advanced.29
>>
>> If there is interest; later we can create a bunch of tasking manager jobs
>> for importing small chunks at a time; plus write up the plan(s) as needed
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM John Bryant 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of the WA suburbs
>>> [1], see attached small example file for King's Park. Does something like
>>> this work? I can drag and drop them into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if
>>> they're formatted or attributed correctly to be most useful.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> John
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details
>>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi John
 I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a layer would be
 fine.   I can then select, copy and paste the tracings into an active layer
 for upload, checking  as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
 I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say Perth or the
 South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.
 Thanks

 On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:

 Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size
 for a chunk? What would be a useful format?

 On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren 
 wrote:

> Hi
>
> I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been
> traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it
> hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
> inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become
> apparent.
> The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints
> is
> much too large for me to handle.
> Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into
> bite
> sized chunks?
>
>
> ___
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 ___
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[Warren]

That was  also my plan John.  The Kings Park data set looks like a 
perfect example.  I can load that as a layer and compare the existing 
OSM data in another layer.   It is not that difficult to select a number 
of building traces at a time and bring them in.  However the Kings Park 
data is already showing some inconsistencies.  For Example Fraser's 
Restaurant, circular building is showing as orthogonal.  Many of the 
other buildings are also incorrect.

Oh well perhaps it is just another tool that can sometimes be useful.
Good effort anyway


On 21/10/2020 3:12 pm, John Bryant wrote:
Seems sensible to me, I'd personally be shying away from imports 
without more knowledge of how that works. I was thinking about biting 
off very small chunks (even suburbs may be too big for this) and 
manually going over them, making sure to not overwrite existing 
buildings, and checking them individually to make sure they match up 
with relevant imagery. Is there a recommended workflow for this?


On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:02, Daniel O'Connor 
mailto:daniel.ocon...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Just to flag a note of caution here - I'd recommend small scale
evaluations /only/ at this stage; or if you do bigger test
imports; in a sandbox environment.


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sandbox_for_editing#Experiment_with_the_API_.28advanced.29



If there is interest; later we can create a bunch of tasking
manager jobs for importing small chunks at a time; plus write up
the plan(s) as needed


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM John Bryant mailto:johnwbry...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of the
WA suburbs [1], see attached small example file for King's
Park. Does something like this work? I can drag and drop them
into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if they're formatted or
attributed correctly to be most useful.

Cheers
John

[1]

https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details



On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren
mailto:war...@specialtyfeeds.com.au>> wrote:

Hi John
I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a
layer would be fine.   I can then select, copy and paste
the tracings into an active layer for upload, checking  as
I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say
Perth or the South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.
Thanks

On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:

Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be
a good size for a chunk? What would be a useful format?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren
mailto:war...@specialtyfeeds.com.au>> wrote:

Hi

I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal
buildings have been
traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my
area, lets face it
hand tracing is not much fun  and very time
consuming.  I think some
inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as
they become apparent.
The data at
https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints

is
much too large for me to handle.
Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this
data set into bite
sized chunks?


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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[John Bryant via Talk-au]

Seems sensible to me, I'd personally be shying away from imports without
more knowledge of how that works. I was thinking about biting off very
small chunks (even suburbs may be too big for this) and manually going over
them, making sure to not overwrite existing buildings, and checking them
individually to make sure they match up with relevant imagery. Is there a
recommended workflow for this?

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:02, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> Just to flag a note of caution here - I'd recommend small scale
> evaluations *only* at this stage; or if you do bigger test imports; in a
> sandbox environment.
>
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sandbox_for_editing#Experiment_with_the_API_.28advanced.29
>
> If there is interest; later we can create a bunch of tasking manager jobs
> for importing small chunks at a time; plus write up the plan(s) as needed
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM John Bryant  wrote:
>
>> Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of the WA suburbs
>> [1], see attached small example file for King's Park. Does something like
>> this work? I can drag and drop them into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if
>> they're formatted or attributed correctly to be most useful.
>>
>> Cheers
>> John
>>
>> [1]
>> https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi John
>>> I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a layer would be
>>> fine.   I can then select, copy and paste the tracings into an active layer
>>> for upload, checking  as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
>>> I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say Perth or the
>>> South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size
>>> for a chunk? What would be a useful format?
>>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi

 I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been
 traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it
 hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
 inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become
 apparent.
 The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints
 is
 much too large for me to handle.
 Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into bite
 sized chunks?


 ___
 Talk-au mailing list
 Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

>>>
>>> ___
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[Daniel O'Connor]

Just to flag a note of caution here - I'd recommend small scale evaluations
*only* at this stage; or if you do bigger test imports; in a sandbox
environment.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sandbox_for_editing#Experiment_with_the_API_.28advanced.29

If there is interest; later we can create a bunch of tasking manager jobs
for importing small chunks at a time; plus write up the plan(s) as needed


On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 5:10 PM John Bryant  wrote:

> Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of the WA suburbs
> [1], see attached small example file for King's Park. Does something like
> this work? I can drag and drop them into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if
> they're formatted or attributed correctly to be most useful.
>
> Cheers
> John
>
> [1]
> https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren  wrote:
>
>> Hi John
>> I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a layer would be
>> fine.   I can then select, copy and paste the tracings into an active layer
>> for upload, checking  as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
>> I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say Perth or the
>> South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:
>>
>> Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size for
>> a chunk? What would be a useful format?
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been
>>> traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it
>>> hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
>>> inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become
>>> apparent.
>>> The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints is
>>> much too large for me to handle.
>>> Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into bite
>>> sized chunks?
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 160, Issue 14

[John Bryant]

Hi Warren, I've split it out into .osm files for each of the WA suburbs
[1], see attached small example file for King's Park. Does something like
this work? I can drag and drop them into JOSM, but I'm not 100% sure if
they're formatted or attributed correctly to be most useful.

Cheers
John

[1]
https://data.gov.au/dataset/ds-dga-6a0ec945-c880-4882-8a81-4dbcb85e74e5/details

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 09:58, Warren  wrote:

> Hi John
> I use  JOSM.  Any file format that I can bring in as a layer would be
> fine.   I can then select, copy and paste the tracings into an active layer
> for upload, checking  as I go.  Certainly faster than tracing by hand.
> I am not sure when JOSM get chocked by file size, but say Perth or the
> South West of WA may be enough of a reduction.
> Thanks
>
> On 21/10/2020 9:20 am, John Bryant wrote:
>
> Hi Warren, I could probably help with this. What would be a good size for
> a chunk? What would be a useful format?
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 07:21, Warren  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I am in the eastern suburbs of Perth where minimal buildings have been
>> traced.  I would be happy to check trace data in my area, lets face it
>> hand tracing is not much fun  and very time consuming.  I think some
>> inaccuracies are acceptable, they can be modified as they become apparent.
>> The data at https://github.com/microsoft/AustraliaBuildingFootprints is
>> much too large for me to handle.
>> Is  someone more skillful than me able to break this data set into bite
>> sized chunks?
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
>


kings-park.osm
Description: Binary data
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Re: [talk-au] Microsoft Australian building footprints

[Andrew Harvey]

On Wed, 21 Oct 2020 at 15:35, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> Because of the simple way I split the files up, I've only got sporadic
> coverage - a few buildings per street from my 10% sample. I'm not sure if
> the original file is sorted by longitude/latitude in any way; or if the
> model simply missed many of these. @Andrew Harvey
>  - can you shed some light on this?
>

Looks pretty complete to me, I converted it into FlatGeobuf with OGR and
then opened the whole country in QGIS (you should be able to load the whole
GeoJSON in QGIS, but FlatGeobuf gives better performance).
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