Re: [talk-au] Australian Road Review by littlemaps

[Warren]

Thanks for the clarification Ian.
Keep up the great work.

On 22/06/2021 7:27 pm, Little Maps wrote:


Hi Warren, thanks for your feedback. You sent me back to my computer 
to re-check some numbers. Remember that the 57,828 kms in the blog 
post only includes OSM highway tags from highway=motorway to 
highway=tertiary. Other road types, including highway=unclassified, 
track, residential etc, are not included in the totals. I just ran 
some Overpass Turbo queries to calculate the total length of other 
road classes in WA, and this what you get:



OSM ROAD CLASS



DISTANCE (km)



CUMULATIVE TOTALS

Motorway to tertiary



57,828 (as in blog)



57,828

Unclassified



87,195



145,023

Track



77,339



222,362


If you add motorways to tertiary plus unclassified roads in OSM you 
get 145,023 kms. This is very close to the total length of roads that 
is not managed by DPAW, as you quoted from the WA Main Roads report: 
147,676 km. In fact the difference is only 1.8%.


In addition to this, there are 77,339 kms of highway=track in WA in 
OSM. This vastly exceeds the length of DPAW managed roads (National 
Parks, Forestry) that you quoted from the WA Main Roads report (38,333 
km). (I assume that at least some of these "extra" tracks must be on 
private property?) It's difficult to compare the numbers any more 
closely than this, as Main Roads WA and OSM categorise roads in 
different ways.


Thus, the total length of highway=motorway + trunk + primary + 
secondary + tertiary + track in WA in OSM = 222,362 km. The total 
length of roads that are and are not managed by DPAW that you quoted 
from the WA Main Roads report is 186,009 km. So I reckon OpenStreetMap 
is doing pretty well really, /especially /on unsealed roads. (Plus, 
about 20,000 kms of residential roads have also been mapped in WA, as 
well as other road types).


Having said all that, I'm sure that extra roads will be added to OSM 
in WA and the NT, as you suggest. Northern Qld is probably in the same 
boat. However, the total length of these roads will be very minor 
compared to what's already been mapped.


Anyhow, thanks for keeping me honest, I'm glad I didn't stuff the 
numbers up that badly! Best wishes Ian :)



On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 6:54 PM Warren via Talk-au 
mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org>> wrote:


An impressive effort Ian but I think you have underestimated the
length
of Roads in WA.

 From Main Roads WA report:

Road length excluding DPAW managed  roads = 147,676

DPAW managed Roads (National Parks, Forestry etc) = 38,333

Mappers in WA have a long way to go.  I suspect a large percentage of
the sealed roads have been mapped on OSM.  The remainder are
almost all
unsealed.

The NT may be in a similar position.

Nonetheless an interesting  report.  Thanks for sharing.

Warren



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Re: [talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bračko]

Thank you all for support. I have learned that baby's nails nay be razor
sharp. :)

Anyway, the maintenance team has stopped their work until my colleagues
finish the analysis - what happened. Most of these are dead ends and these
do not provide any connectivity (between two roads) so it won't have any
influence for the missing attribute/tag access=private/destination. We do
not have such information, except to trace the road per available resources.

We already had such discussion here, and we made corrections in our
policies regarding to that discussion.

Anyway, I do not want to spoil or to provide any wrong feedback atm, so
I'll get back to all of you in Monday. Editorial work is stopped for now
regarding this task.

Thanks,
Nemanja

Sent from my phone

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 09:43 Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> @Nemanja in a personal capacity, all the best for your kid!
>
> @Nemanja in a business capacity, just so that there are no
> misunderstandings: if there are doubts about the quality of an organised
> editing activity, that activity needs to pause until the doubts are
> resolved.
>
> Getting back to the community after investigation is fine, but the
> activity must not continue and potentially introduce more errors in the
> mean time.
>
> @AU community, If further bad data is added after a problem has been
> flagged, please report the participating accounts to DWG so that we can
> stop them.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [talk-au] Australian Road Review by littlemaps

[Little Maps]

Hi Warren, thanks for your feedback. You sent me back to my computer to
re-check some numbers. Remember that the 57,828 kms in the blog post only
includes OSM highway tags from highway=motorway to highway=tertiary. Other
road types, including highway=unclassified, track, residential etc, are not
included in the totals. I just ran some Overpass Turbo queries to calculate
the total length of other road classes in WA, and this what you get:


OSM ROAD CLASS

DISTANCE (km)

CUMULATIVE TOTALS

Motorway to tertiary

57,828 (as in blog)

57,828

Unclassified

87,195

145,023

Track

77,339

222,362


If you add motorways to tertiary plus unclassified roads in OSM you get
145,023 kms. This is very close to the total length of roads that is not
managed by DPAW, as you quoted from the WA Main Roads report: 147,676 km.
In fact the difference is only 1.8%.

In addition to this, there are 77,339 kms of highway=track in WA in OSM.
This vastly exceeds the length of DPAW managed roads (National Parks,
Forestry) that you quoted from the WA Main Roads report (38,333 km). (I
assume that at least some of these "extra" tracks must be on private
property?) It's difficult to compare the numbers any more closely than
this, as Main Roads WA and OSM categorise roads in different ways.

Thus, the total length of highway=motorway + trunk + primary + secondary +
tertiary + track in WA in OSM = 222,362 km. The total length of roads that
are and are not managed by DPAW that you quoted from the WA Main Roads
report is 186,009 km. So I reckon OpenStreetMap is doing pretty well
really, *especially *on unsealed roads. (Plus, about 20,000 kms of
residential roads have also been mapped in WA, as well as other road types).

Having said all that, I'm sure that extra roads will be added to OSM in WA
and the NT, as you suggest. Northern Qld is probably in the same boat.
However, the total length of these roads will be very minor compared to
what's already been mapped.

Anyhow, thanks for keeping me honest, I'm glad I didn't stuff the numbers
up that badly!  Best wishes Ian :)

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 6:54 PM Warren via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> An impressive effort Ian but I think you have underestimated the length
> of Roads in WA.
>
>  From Main Roads WA report:
>
> Road length excluding DPAW managed  roads = 147,676
>
> DPAW managed Roads (National Parks, Forestry etc) = 38,333
>
> Mappers in WA have a long way to go.  I suspect a large percentage of
> the sealed roads have been mapped on OSM.  The remainder are almost all
> unsealed.
>
> The NT may be in a similar position.
>
> Nonetheless an interesting  report.  Thanks for sharing.
>
> Warren
>
>
>
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[talk-au] Australian Road Review by littlemaps

[Warren via Talk-au]

An impressive effort Ian but I think you have underestimated the length 
of Roads in WA.


From Main Roads WA report:

Road length excluding DPAW managed  roads = 147,676

DPAW managed Roads (National Parks, Forestry etc) = 38,333

Mappers in WA have a long way to go.  I suspect a large percentage of 
the sealed roads have been mapped on OSM.  The remainder are almost all 
unsealed.


The NT may be in a similar position.

Nonetheless an interesting  report.  Thanks for sharing.

Warren



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Re: [talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

@Nemanja in a personal capacity, all the best for your kid!

@Nemanja in a business capacity, just so that there are no 
misunderstandings: if there are doubts about the quality of an organised 
editing activity, that activity needs to pause until the doubts are 
resolved.


Getting back to the community after investigation is fine, but the 
activity must not continue and potentially introduce more errors in the 
mean time.


@AU community, If further bad data is added after a problem has been 
flagged, please report the participating accounts to DWG so that we can 
stop them.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Nemanja Bračko]

Hi all,

Please allow me few days since my baby hurt my eye. I'll be back on Monday.

Maintenance lead is informed and aware about placed issue, so she will
investigate it. We have seen the message/an issue as soon as it was posted,
but we have to investigate what happened before we can provide any feedback
or solution.

Thanks for reaching me out. We will update you all.

Sent from my phone

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 08:31 Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Hi Daniel
>
> Nemanja Bracko   was head of the Oz team a little
> while ago at least?
>
> Good luck!
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 at 16:13, Daniel O'Connor 
> wrote:
>
>> I've noticed and raised https://github.com/microsoft/Open-Maps/issues/65
>> to no response in the last 24 hours, ditto to changeset comments; and it
>> looks like the team is still chugging away. Not all of the edits are wrong,
>> but a lot are.
>>
>> Overpass suggests up to ~5000 highway=residential or highway=unclassified
>> roads with blank names are present in around ~2500 changesets; but I'm not
>> sure how far back OSMCha looks.
>>
>> Do we have a better contact point?
>>
>> I'm concerned that it's about to route a lot of people through private
>> farms; thinking it's just normal; public road.
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_car=-34.9046%2C137.7851%3B-34.8955%2C137.7808
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Hi Daniel

Nemanja Bracko   was head of the Oz team a little
while ago at least?

Good luck!

Thanks

Graeme


On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 at 16:13, Daniel O'Connor 
wrote:

> I've noticed and raised https://github.com/microsoft/Open-Maps/issues/65
> to no response in the last 24 hours, ditto to changeset comments; and it
> looks like the team is still chugging away. Not all of the edits are wrong,
> but a lot are.
>
> Overpass suggests up to ~5000 highway=residential or highway=unclassified
> roads with blank names are present in around ~2500 changesets; but I'm not
> sure how far back OSMCha looks.
>
> Do we have a better contact point?
>
> I'm concerned that it's about to route a lot of people through private
> farms; thinking it's just normal; public road.
>
> Example:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_car=-34.9046%2C137.7851%3B-34.8955%2C137.7808
>
>
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[talk-au] Low quality road classification contributions in SA via Microsoft Open Maps Team - contact point?

[Daniel O'Connor]

I've noticed and raised https://github.com/microsoft/Open-Maps/issues/65 to
no response in the last 24 hours, ditto to changeset comments; and it looks
like the team is still chugging away. Not all of the edits are wrong, but a
lot are.

Overpass suggests up to ~5000 highway=residential or highway=unclassified
roads with blank names are present in around ~2500 changesets; but I'm not
sure how far back OSMCha looks.

Do we have a better contact point?

I'm concerned that it's about to route a lot of people through private
farms; thinking it's just normal; public road.

Example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/directions?engine=fossgis_osrm_car=-34.9046%2C137.7851%3B-34.8955%2C137.7808
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