Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
Under what I'm suggesting, "32" would become service=driveway, driveway=pipestem. So it's completely compatible with existing tagging - but provides a little extra information. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 24/09/2021 9:16 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan wrote: Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as separate ways? Yep. Here's one that I did recently: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was apparently a single property that was sub-divided. (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's not visible) Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A is right up the end. "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each house. Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
Hey Graeme, While I understand your reasoning about naming the driveways, but I don't believe it is a good idea. It isn't really the name of the roadway. By analogy, a sign saying "Entrance" at a hotel wouldn't make name of the driveway "Entrance". A numbered letter box next to a driveway is an entrance sign in a different form. Perhaps a relation with type 'entrance' would be the most appropriate way to capture this connection from street->building? On 2021-09-24 00:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40, wrote: Hi I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there? No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a mail box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street sign? As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop! Thanks Graeme ? Tony On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan wrote: Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as separate ways? Yep. Here's one that I did recently: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was apparently a single property that was sub-divided. (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's not visible) Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A is right up the end. "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each house. Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40, wrote: > Hi > I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there? No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a mail box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street sign? As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop! Thanks Graeme > > ? > > Tony > > > On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan > wrote: > > > >> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as > >> separate ways? > >> > > > > Yep. > > > > Here's one that I did recently: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was > > apparently a single property that was sub-divided. > > > > (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it > > further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's > > not visible) > > > > Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you > go > > down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & > A > > is right up the end. > > > > "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A > / C > > junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each > > house. > > > > Thanks > > > > Graeme > > > > > > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
Hi I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only ? Tony On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan wrote: Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as separate ways? Yep. Here's one that I did recently: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was apparently a single property that was sub-divided. (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's not visible) Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A is right up the end. "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each house. Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan wrote: > Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as > separate ways? > Yep. Here's one that I did recently: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was apparently a single property that was sub-divided. (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's not visible) Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A is right up the end. "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each house. Thanks Graeme ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
I had never heard of "pipestem", but the actual key name isn't really relevant - any more than say "sidewalk" in Australia. The wiki definition for "pipestem" is "shared driveway", which is what we're looking to help distinguish from single driveway (service=driveway). https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225 As Graeme says, that appears to be highway=residential. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 23/09/2021 8:59 am, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi The possibility of retagging user HighRouleur's highway= service service=driveway ways to highway= service service=driveway driveway=pipestem occurred to me as well. But I have never heard of a pipestem before. Maybe its something that is only done in the US? My thought was that if I don't fully understand a tag I shouldn't be using it. Does a pipestem describe https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225 better than the simpler highway= service? I think I prefer highway= service Tony In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times. Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of land, on which the shared driveway sits. The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple properties. So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems What do people think? The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable. An example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517 Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au _ This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
Yes, agree that legally public roads should be classified as highway=residential/unclassified or service=alley as appropriate. Pipestem (not pipestream :) ) is purely for shared (probably private) driveways. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 23/09/2021 12:27 pm, Alex Sims wrote: Hi, I hadn't seen the "pipestream" before, and it does look to have some utility. I'd much prefer that (legally) public roads be highway=residential/unclassified etc so as these will all be present in government data. If it's private (even shared between many people) then it should be a pipestream or driveway or whatever so as to know you won't find it in a government based list and need to rely on survey on the ground or an aerial photo or whatever. Alex On 23/9/21, 11:51 am, "fors...@ozonline.com.au" wrote: "so why isn't it just a simple highway=residential?" in this case https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225 either highway=service or highway=residential are OK with me highway=service can be achieved by reversion in this case and there are approximately 5000 ways to deal with. Not all are lanes but I don't want to manually search 5000 ways looking for lanes tagged as driveway ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as separate ways? cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 23/09/2021 9:11 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: When I've found the same situation, I've just left it as a single service=driveway from the road to where it splits, then two (or however many) more driveways from that point to each house. Thanks Graeme On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan wrote: In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times. Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of land, on which the shared driveway sits. The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple properties. So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems What do people think? The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable. An example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517 Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
I'm not much of a fan of the term "pipestem", but as you say, the actual key name is irrelevant - as long as the use is agreed. Certainly, I just mentally translate it as "shared_driveway". It seems to fill a useful niche, given the number of times recently I've seen a driveway leading to multiple properties. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com On 23/09/2021 11:47 am, Andrew Harvey wrote: driveway=pipestream sounds good. It's got more usage than service=pipestream. It's nice to have a way to distinguish these from non-shared driveways. I've never heard the term before either, must be american, but that's fine, many of the existing key values are UK terms and don't apply globally, so these can be localised to simply "shared driveway" like we already do for other tags at https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/id-editor/viewstrings/#en_AU/presets/179749902?q=translated%3Ayes On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan wrote: In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times. Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of land, on which the shared driveway sits. The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple properties. So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems What do people think? The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable. An example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517 Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd. cheers Tom Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
