[talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
CC-by dataset just turned up: http://data.australia.gov.au/622 It seems pretty straight forward to convert this to .osm format, suitable for JOSM. However I'm after suggestions on how to deal with the .osm file(s). I'm leaning towards producing metro and non-metro data sets and bulk importing the non-metro data sets and then offering the metro data sets on a request basis, or is there a better way to handle this and other similar data sets? These locations might be of interest for another reason, many transmission sites are close to look outs. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
Should these keys be "attribution" instead of "attributation"? Alex. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, John Smith wrote: > > I'm leaning towards producing metro and non-metro data sets and bulk > importing the non-metro data sets and then offering the metro data > sets on a request basis, or is there a better way to handle this and > other similar data sets? Splitting up the data seems reasonable. As for access, I'd suggest supplying it via a central location on the wiki. In general, IMHO the easier it is for people to access it and import it, the better. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 1:13 PM, John Smith wrote: > I'm leaning towards producing metro and non-metro data sets and bulk > importing the non-metro data sets and then offering the metro data > sets on a request basis, or is there a better way to handle this and > other similar data sets? Is that because you're worried there will be a lot of duplicates with existing data in metro areas? Could you perhaps import it all, but mark the metro data as locked (or whatever it is that stops it rendering)? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 17 May 2010 15:07, Steve Bennett wrote: > Is that because you're worried there will be a lot of duplicates with > existing data in metro areas? Could you perhaps import it all, but Some people were upset at previous imports in metro areas. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
The current tagging scheme for doing transponders don't seem to take multiple transponders on the same tower: The lat/lon is approximations only, since the ACMA still uses AGD66 instead of WGS84 or DGA94, and there is no simple formula to shift locations, but should be closeish. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Mon, 17 May 2010, John Smith wrote: > The current tagging scheme for doing transponders don't seem to take > multiple transponders on the same tower: > multiple transponders and transmitters is normal, isn't it? (puts on ham radio hat) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 17 May 2010 20:12, Liz wrote: > multiple transponders and transmitters is normal, isn't it? > (puts on ham radio hat) Not always, think older AM radio mast installations, especially in rural areas... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
The ACMA data has inconsistencies, it lists the same site ID, but gives different lat/lons for several locations. I'm still after suggestions on how to tag multiple transponders for the same node, I don't think tagging multiple nodes on the same spot is a good idea, using a single node + multiple relations might work I suppose, but that doesn't seem optimal either. The ABC tower in Gore Hill has 17 transponders registered. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, 18 May 2010, you wrote: > On 17 May 2010 20:12, Liz wrote: > > multiple transponders and transmitters is normal, isn't it? > > (puts on ham radio hat) > > Not always, think older AM radio mast installations, especially in > rural areas... that's this http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=8919 > around here every mast has heaps of transmitters tower space can be sold for good money a single transmitter on a tower is rare, unless we map these ones http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=8908 which is an automated river height gauge -- Let me take you a button-hole lower. -- William Shakespeare, "Love's Labour's Lost" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, 18 May 2010, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > On Tue, 18 May 2010, you wrote: > > On 17 May 2010 20:12, Liz wrote: > > > multiple transponders and transmitters is normal, isn't it? > > > (puts on ham radio hat) > > > > Not always, think older AM radio mast installations, especially in > > rural areas... > > that's this > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=8919 > careful inspection shows that tower space here has been shared with another install (photo 8918 shows the full height of the tower) > around here every mast has heaps of transmitters > tower space can be sold for good money > a single transmitter on a tower is rare, unless we map these ones > http://billiau.net/zoph/photo.php?photo_id=8908 > which is an automated river height gauge > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 18 May 2010 08:04, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > around here every mast has heaps of transmitters > tower space can be sold for good money > a single transmitter on a tower is rare, unless we map these ones Maybe so, but the data the ACMA released only covers TV and radio stations, it doesn't cover mobile phones and point to point links etc... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:29 AM, John Smith wrote: > > On 18 May 2010 08:04, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > > around here every mast has heaps of transmitters > > tower space can be sold for good money > > a single transmitter on a tower is rare, unless we map these ones > > Maybe so, but the data the ACMA released only covers TV and radio > stations, it doesn't cover mobile phones and point to point links > etc... The original data source contains all those kinds of things: http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/site_proximity.nearby_sites_list?pMODE=DMS&pLAT=-35.13873086&pLONG=149.17643464 It would be nice to see the whole dataset released, especially since the map viewer on the site isn't compatible with Google Chrome. It usually costs you $114/year on CDROM so probably not going to happen too soon. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 18 May 2010 09:35, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > The original data source contains all those kinds of things: > http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/site_proximity.nearby_sites_list?pMODE=DMS&pLAT=-35.13873086&pLONG=149.17643464 > > It would be nice to see the whole dataset released, especially since > the map viewer on the site isn't compatible with Google Chrome. It It didn't work for me in Opera 10.53, FF2 or FF3... Maybe it only works in IE6? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, 18 May 2010, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 8:29 AM, John Smith wrote: > > On 18 May 2010 08:04, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > > > around here every mast has heaps of transmitters > > > tower space can be sold for good money > > > a single transmitter on a tower is rare, unless we map these ones > > > > Maybe so, but the data the ACMA released only covers TV and radio > > stations, it doesn't cover mobile phones and point to point links > > etc... > > The original data source contains all those kinds of things: > http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/site_proximity.nearby_sites_list?pMODE=DM > S&pLAT=-35.13873086&pLONG=149.17643464 > > It would be nice to see the whole dataset released, especially since > the map viewer on the site isn't compatible with Google Chrome. It > usually costs you $114/year on CDROM so probably not going to happen > too soon. > Interesting, lists commercial licencees only ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 18 May 2010 09:50, Liz wrote: > Interesting, lists commercial licencees only That's a list of transmission sites, while most are probably commercial installations, I'm guessing some of the transponders will be for community radio and tv stations. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:57 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 18 May 2010 09:50, Liz wrote: >> Interesting, lists commercial licencees only > > That's a list of transmission sites, while most are probably > commercial installations, I'm guessing some of the transponders will > be for community radio and tv stations. > Well one of the sites on that list is the "Belconnen Model Aircraft Club MITCHELL". Someone should tag ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Model_Aerodrome ) and map their scale runway ;) http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-35.226014,149.132237&z=21&t=h&nmd=20100119 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, 18 May 2010, John Smith wrote: > On 18 May 2010 09:35, Alex (Maxious) Sadleir wrote: > > The original data source contains all those kinds of things: > > http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/site_proximity.nearby_sites_list?pMODE= > >DMS&pLAT=-35.13873086&pLONG=149.17643464 > > > > It would be nice to see the whole dataset released, especially since > > the map viewer on the site isn't compatible with Google Chrome. It > > It didn't work for me in Opera 10.53, FF2 or FF3... Maybe it only works in > IE6? > FF3 or Konqueror was enough to get a listing of the sites close to a given area despite a piece saying "xml error" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, 18 May 2010, John Smith wrote: > On 18 May 2010 09:50, Liz wrote: > > Interesting, lists commercial licencees only > > That's a list of transmission sites, while most are probably > commercial installations, I'm guessing some of the transponders will > be for community radio and tv stations. > I found community radio, the tourist radio commercial entities fire brigade, SES government departments but no amateurs -- BOFH excuse #18: excess surge protection ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 18 May 2010 10:29, Liz wrote: > FF3 or Konqueror was enough to get a listing of the sites close to a given > area > despite a piece saying "xml error" They have a map, but I couldn't get it to work, just the XML errors in frames... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 6:41 AM, John Smith wrote: > > I'm still after > suggestions on how to tag multiple transponders for the same node, I > don't think tagging multiple nodes on the same spot is a good idea, > using a single node + multiple relations might work I suppose, but > that doesn't seem optimal either. Relations should only be used for "groups of objects in which each object may take on a specific role". I think the problem arises because it's ambiguous as to what you are actually mapping. If mapping the *tower* (it seems you are, given ""), then I think *transponder* information should not be shoehorned into the same element. I'm not sure though... Alternatively, if you think the *transponder* information really is a characteristic of the *tower*, another option is to use communications_transponder:frequency=0.729;0.891. Or, you could instead do something like communications_transponder=0.729_5W_AM_vertical_omni;... etc. A few options for you there. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 18 May 2010 13:00, Roy Wallace wrote: > Relations should only be used for "groups of objects in which each > object may take on a specific role". Maybe so, but it's often the best way to tag things at present since you can't have duplicate keys, but in this case you are grouping a bunch of antenna to a tower... > I think the problem arises because it's ambiguous as to what you are > actually mapping. If mapping the *tower* (it seems you are, given > ""), then I think *transponder* > information should not be shoehorned into the same element. There is 2 pieces of information, first the tower itself, and second the transponder/transmitter information both have value. > Alternatively, if you think the *transponder* information really is a > characteristic of the *tower*, another option is to use > communications_transponder:frequency=0.729;0.891. Or, you could > instead do something like > communications_transponder=0.729_5W_AM_vertical_omni;... etc. That doesn't help any more than listing out the information in individual sub-tags... In fact this makes things much worst since you can't search individual aspects of each transponder/transmitter... This information could be used to plan trips and roughly know where each radio station covers based on the output and frequency, if you then combine digitial elevation information you could have a pretty good idea of ideal coverage... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
I've managed to convert most of the relevant information from the ACMA spread sheet and convert it to OSM format using nodes and relations, including start and end dates for temporary licenses. So the question now is what to do with the data, there is 2,152 locations and 7,633 transponders/transmitters, I was thinking about excluding all metro areas, but I'm now thinking that if someone doesn't want an area covered let me know and I'll not batch import the information, and then send you a copy of the data, or anyone else that specifically requests it. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
Sorry forgot to attach a sample tower for comments on the tags I used. sample.osm Description: Binary data ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
Have since uploaded these locations: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/4757013 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 26 May 2010 10:23, Alex Lum wrote: > > /> > > Should these keys be "attribution" instead of "attributation"? Ross spotted that last week and they should since fixed it, unless I missed some? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Wed, 26 May 2010 10:28:24 +1000 John Smith wrote: > On 26 May 2010 10:23, Alex Lum wrote: > > > > > v='http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_9150' /> > > > > Should these keys be "attribution" instead of "attributation"? > > Ross spotted that last week and they should since fixed it, unless I > missed some? All seem ok now. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Ross Scanlon wrote: > On Wed, 26 May 2010 10:28:24 +1000 > John Smith wrote: > >> On 26 May 2010 10:23, Alex Lum wrote: >> > >> > > > v='http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_9150' /> >> > >> > Should these keys be "attribution" instead of "attributation"? >> >> Ross spotted that last week and they should since fixed it, unless I >> missed some? > > All seem ok now. I came across one of these (Holmesglen TAFE, Moorabbin). Was I supposed to do anything more than move it to what appears to be the actual tower (nearmap) and remove the "fixme:to_be_reviewed" (or whatever) tag? That one appeared to be off by about 20m. Is that about what we expect? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Broadcast tower locations
On 28 May 2010 15:07, Steve Bennett wrote: > I came across one of these (Holmesglen TAFE, Moorabbin). Was I > supposed to do anything more than move it to what appears to be the > actual tower (nearmap) and remove the "fixme:to_be_reviewed" (or > whatever) tag? Unless you have insider knowledge and can supplement and/or confirm the rest of the information :) > That one appeared to be off by about 20m. Is that about what we expect? The accuracy seems fairly good for the most part, some are almost spot on, others seem to be the location of the front gate etc. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
