Re: [talk-au] Qld topo map usable?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Thanks for looking into that for us Simon.

As far as I can tell, with my limited legal knowledge, it all appears to be
down to interpretations of how CC / OSM on one side, & DNRM on the other,
are reading the same document - would that be right?

Could I ask if you, who understands the legals involved, could contact the
people from DNRM directly?

Thanks

Graeme

On 9 October 2017 at 21:28, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I was on the road the last two weeks so didn't see this thread, sorry.
>
> (Un-)luckily the situation is completely clear, we need the waiver as
> provided here https://drive.google.com/file/d/
> 0B3PN5zfbzThqeTdWR1l3SzJVcTg/view to be able to use the data in OSM.
> Even better: you don't even need to take my word for it, as the text here
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ was
> developed with feedback and input from CC (and I would consider CC fairly
> authoritative on matters of their licence).
>
> The underlying issue is that the ODbL, being pragmatic and practical,
> allows on the one hand distribution of the data via DRM protected means as
> long as there is a parallel distribution mechanism available (the more
> theoretical issue ) and on the other hand allows for works produced out of
> the data that are not databases (for example a map image) to be licensed on
> essentially any terms as long as the required is attribution provided.
>
> Simple example: a map image produced from OSM data can be incorporated in
> a cinematic production and distributed on a blu-ray disc or streamed via
> Netflix with DRM in place. Neither is possible with derivatives from CC BY
> licensed material.
>
> Simon
>
> Am 01.10.2017 um 08:24 schrieb Andrew Harvey:
>
> I made an enquiry to DNRM about this exactly back in June.
>
> The response I got was:
>
> We have given consideration to your request and advise that, consistent
> with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided under a CC:BY 4.0
> Licence.  The department will not provide the data under an ODbl licence.
> It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data and
> we do not accept that OpenStreetMap cannot use our data under the CC:BY
> licence.
>
>
>
> If you have any questions or I can be of any further assistance please
> feel free to contact me by any of the methods below.
>
> So in the end I didn't get the waiver form OSMF requires, yet DNRM
> believes we can use CC BY 4.0 data in OSM without it, in conflict with what
> the OSMF says. I don't feel this is good enough, but I'm not a lawyer so I
> left it at that.
>
> If anyone can help pick this up again, I feel we have a good chance of it
> happening.
>
> DNRM are very responsive to enquiries like this, which is great.
>
>
> On 1 Oct. 2017 4:50 pm, "Andrew Harvey"  wrote:
>
> Unfortunately not. CC BY 4.0 data isn't compatible with the OSM license,
> see https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for more
> details.
>
> There is a waiver form at that link which the copyright holder needs to
> agree and sign for CC BY 4.0 data to be used in OSM.
>
> Some Australian agencies have agreed to this, and others have explicitly
> not agreed to this, so it's hit and miss based on the agency.
>
> On 1 Oct. 2017 4:29 pm, "Graeme Fitzpatrick" 
> wrote:
>
>> G'day all
>>
>> I've just come across an online Qld topo map, published by Dept of
>> Natural Resources.
>>
>> Map is at http://qtopo.dnrm.qld.gov.au/Mobile/
>>
>> Also makes reference to copyright being licensed under CC BY 4.0:
>> https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/legal/copyright, & includes
>>
>> "Under this licence you are free to use this information in accordance
>> with the licence terms without having to seek permission from our
>> department. You must keep the copyright notice intact and attribute the
>> State of Queensland as the source of the material."
>>
>> Does that mean we can use it?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing 
> listTalk-au@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Qld topo map usable?

[Andrew Harvey]

Here is a bit more of what they said:

DNRM:

> Thank you for your email dated 19thMay regarding a waiver from the
> Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 (CC BY 4.0) licence for QTopo
> information.  I am seeking advice from our legal services unit on the
> suitability of offering our information in both CC BY 4.0 and the ODC
> Open Database Licence, and hope to have an response shortly.
>
> If you have any questions or I can be of any assistance in the
> meantime please feel free to contact me by any of the methods below.
> Thank you for your patience while we work through the intent of the
> ODbl v1.0 agreement.
>
> We note that Clause 4.7b (Parallel distribution) of the QDbl agreement
> allows for the use of technological measures to restrict rights if you
> make a copy of the database or a Derivative Database available to the
> recipient of the restricted database.
>
> To assist in our determinations could you please advise how someone in
> Queensland, Australia could, or will be able to, access a copy of the
> restricted database as per clause 4.7b.
Me:

> I'm not completely across all the legalities of the ODbL, but my
> understanding is that clause means that if you or any consumer of the
> ODbL licensed data distribute that data in a DRM restricted format
> (like using a blue ray disk with DRM enabled) you must also make it
> available via a non DRM format (like a web download or any other non-
> DRM medium of your chose).> I believe there is an incompatibility between 
> this and the CC BY
> license which is why this is part of the CC BY waiver OSM requires to
> use OSM data.> The OSM legal mailing list is a good place to ask technical 
> questions
> about the license: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk> Or if 
> you'd prefer something in private [snip]... 

DNRM:

> Again thank you for your patience while I have been working
> through this.
>
> We have given consideration to your request and advise that,
> consistent with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided
> under a CC:BY 4.0 Licence.  The department will not provide the data
> under an ODbl licence.  It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is
> sufficient for use of our data and we do not accept that OpenStreetMap
> cannot use our data under the CC:BY licence.

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017, at 10:28 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
> Hi all


> I was on the road the last two weeks so didn't see this thread, sorry.> 
> (Un-)luckily the situation is completely clear, we need the waiver as
> provided here
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3PN5zfbzThqeTdWR1l3SzJVcTg/view to
> be able to use the data in OSM.  Even better: you don't even need to
> take my word for it, as the text here
> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ was
> developed with feedback and input from CC (and I would consider CC
> fairly authoritative on matters of their licence).> The underlying issue is 
> that the ODbL, being pragmatic and practical,
> allows on the one hand distribution of the data via DRM protected
> means as long as there is a parallel distribution mechanism available
> (the more theoretical issue ) and on the other hand allows for works
> produced out of the data that are not databases (for example a map
> image) to be licensed on essentially any terms as long as the required
> is attribution provided.> Simple example: a map image produced from OSM data 
> can be incorporated
> in a cinematic production and distributed on a blu-ray disc or
> streamed via Netflix with DRM in place. Neither is possible with
> derivatives from CC BY licensed material.> Simon


> 
> Am 01.10.2017 um 08:24 schrieb Andrew Harvey:
>> I made an enquiry to DNRM about this exactly back in June. 
>> 
>> The response I got was:
>> 
>> We have given consideration to your request and advise that,
>> consistent with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided
>> under a CC:BY 4.0 Licence.  The department will not provide the data
>> under an ODbl licence.  It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is
>> sufficient for use of our data and we do not accept that
>> OpenStreetMap cannot use our data under the CC:BY licence.>>  


>> If you have any questions or I can be of any further assistance
>> please feel free to contact me by any of the methods below.>> 
>> So in the end I didn't get the waiver form OSMF requires, yet DNRM
>> believes we can use CC BY 4.0 data in OSM without it, in conflict
>> with what the OSMF says. I don't feel this is good enough, but I'm
>> not a lawyer so I left it at that.>> 
>> If anyone can help pick this up again, I feel we have a good chance
>> of it happening.>> 
>> DNRM are very responsive to enquiries like this, which is great. 
>> 
>> 
>> On 1 Oct. 2017 4:50 pm, "Andrew Harvey"
>>  wrote:>> 
>>> Unfortunately not. CC BY 4.0 data isn't compatible with the OSM
>>> license, see
>>> https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for
>>> more details.>>> 
>>> There is a waiver form at that 

Re: [talk-au] Qld topo map usable?

[Simon Poole]

Hi all

I was on the road the last two weeks so didn't see this thread, sorry.

(Un-)luckily the situation is completely clear, we need the waiver as
provided here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3PN5zfbzThqeTdWR1l3SzJVcTg/view to be
able to use the data in OSM.  Even better: you don't even need to take
my word for it, as the text here
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ was
developed with feedback and input from CC (and I would consider CC
fairly authoritative on matters of their licence).

The underlying issue is that the ODbL, being pragmatic and practical,
allows on the one hand distribution of the data via DRM protected means
as long as there is a parallel distribution mechanism available (the
more theoretical issue ) and on the other hand allows for works produced
out of the data that are not databases (for example a map image) to be
licensed on essentially any terms as long as the required is attribution
provided.

Simple example: a map image produced from OSM data can be incorporated
in a cinematic production and distributed on a blu-ray disc or streamed
via Netflix with DRM in place. Neither is possible with derivatives from
CC BY licensed material.

Simon


Am 01.10.2017 um 08:24 schrieb Andrew Harvey:
> I made an enquiry to DNRM about this exactly back in June.
>
> The response I got was:
>
> We have given consideration to your request and advise that,
> consistent with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided
> under a CC:BY 4.0 Licence.  The department will not provide the data
> under an ODbl licence.  It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is
> sufficient for use of our data and we do not accept that OpenStreetMap
> cannot use our data under the CC:BY licence.
>
>  
>
> If you have any questions or I can be of any further assistance please
> feel free to contact me by any of the methods below.
>
>
> So in the end I didn't get the waiver form OSMF requires, yet DNRM
> believes we can use CC BY 4.0 data in OSM without it, in conflict with
> what the OSMF says. I don't feel this is good enough, but I'm not a
> lawyer so I left it at that. 
>
> If anyone can help pick this up again, I feel we have a good chance of
> it happening. 
>
> DNRM are very responsive to enquiries like this, which is great. 
>
>
> On 1 Oct. 2017 4:50 pm, "Andrew Harvey"  > wrote:
>
> Unfortunately not. CC BY 4.0 data isn't compatible with the OSM
> license,
> see https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/
>  for
> more details.
>
> There is a waiver form at that link which the copyright holder
> needs to agree and sign for CC BY 4.0 data to be used in OSM.
>
> Some Australian agencies have agreed to this, and others have
> explicitly not agreed to this, so it's hit and miss based on the
> agency.
>
> On 1 Oct. 2017 4:29 pm, "Graeme Fitzpatrick"
> > wrote:
>
> G'day all
>
> I've just come across an online Qld topo map, published by
> Dept of Natural Resources.
>
> Map is at http://qtopo.dnrm.qld.gov.au/Mobile/
> 
>
> Also makes reference to copyright being licensed under CC BY
> 4.0: https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/legal/copyright
> , & includes
>
> "Under this licence you are free to use this information in
> accordance with the licence terms without having to seek
> permission from our department. You must keep the copyright
> notice intact and attribute the State of Queensland as the
> source of the material."
>
> Does that mean we can use it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> 
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Qld topo map usable?

[Andrew Harvey]

I made an enquiry to DNRM about this exactly back in June.

The response I got was:

We have given consideration to your request and advise that, consistent
with Queensland Government policy, our data is provided under a CC:BY 4.0
Licence.  The department will not provide the data under an ODbl licence.
It is our belief that a CC:BY licence is sufficient for use of our data and
we do not accept that OpenStreetMap cannot use our data under the CC:BY
licence.



If you have any questions or I can be of any further assistance please feel
free to contact me by any of the methods below.

So in the end I didn't get the waiver form OSMF requires, yet DNRM believes
we can use CC BY 4.0 data in OSM without it, in conflict with what the OSMF
says. I don't feel this is good enough, but I'm not a lawyer so I left it
at that.

If anyone can help pick this up again, I feel we have a good chance of it
happening.

DNRM are very responsive to enquiries like this, which is great.


On 1 Oct. 2017 4:50 pm, "Andrew Harvey"  wrote:

Unfortunately not. CC BY 4.0 data isn't compatible with the OSM license,
see https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2017/03/17/use-of-cc-by-data/ for more
details.

There is a waiver form at that link which the copyright holder needs to
agree and sign for CC BY 4.0 data to be used in OSM.

Some Australian agencies have agreed to this, and others have explicitly
not agreed to this, so it's hit and miss based on the agency.

On 1 Oct. 2017 4:29 pm, "Graeme Fitzpatrick"  wrote:

> G'day all
>
> I've just come across an online Qld topo map, published by Dept of Natural
> Resources.
>
> Map is at http://qtopo.dnrm.qld.gov.au/Mobile/
>
> Also makes reference to copyright being licensed under CC BY 4.0:
> https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/legal/copyright, & includes
>
> "Under this licence you are free to use this information in accordance
> with the licence terms without having to seek permission from our
> department. You must keep the copyright notice intact and attribute the
> State of Queensland as the source of the material."
>
> Does that mean we can use it?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

[talk-au] Qld topo map usable?

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

G'day all

I've just come across an online Qld topo map, published by Dept of Natural
Resources.

Map is at http://qtopo.dnrm.qld.gov.au/Mobile/

Also makes reference to copyright being licensed under CC BY 4.0:
https://www.dnrm.qld.gov.au/legal/copyright, & includes

"Under this licence you are free to use this information in accordance with
the licence terms without having to seek permission from our department.
You must keep the copyright notice intact and attribute the State of
Queensland as the source of the material."

Does that mean we can use it?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au