[talk-au] Re campsites

[Adrian Plaskitt]

Greetings all. I think toilets and  presence of drinking water should be 
separate pieces of information easily obvious to any user. While all campsites 
with drinking water will have toilets, the reverse is often not true in NSW. 
I was at one last weekend - fairly large and popular ( room for 30 or 40 tents 
and vans), within 2 hours drive from sydney, and it had no water except for 
unreliable tank water. ( plenty last weekend lol). 

http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/Dharug-National-Park/Mill-Creek-campground/camping

This information is of interest to cycle tourists particularly, who need to 
manage water supplies quite carefully. It is depressing to get to the campsite 
only to realise you have to cycle another 10ks to get water. So I would suggest 
the second tier be basic plus toilets without an assumption about water. I do 
realise cycle tourists are only a small user group and will probably use other 
more detailed resources though.  
Cheers Adrian 

Sent from my iPhone

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>   1. Re: camp sites (Ian Sergeant)
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> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 17:43:11 +1000
> From: Ian Sergeant 
> To: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
> Cc: OSM - Talk-au 
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] camp sites
> Message-ID:
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> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
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> On 3 May 2015 at 15:27, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> Whatever way it is cut there is a 'responsiblity', and I'd rather see the
>> 'rules' and have the mapper make the choice from local knowledge rather
>> than pass it to some remote person who can only judge it from a yes/no
>> answer.
> 
> I'm in also in favour of subjective decisions, when we need a subjective
> decision, to be made close to the source.
> 
> However, there are some tags that simply aim to group objective facts by
> applying a ruleset to them.  From the description this looks like one of
> those cases.  I look to see what amenity a campsite has, look up the
> proposal, and decide on a category to assign it to.  I can choose to list
> the amenities too if I want.
> 
> People might misinterpret the ruleset, and meanwhile, we are losing hard
> data about the amenities.
> 
> Is there supposed to be a subjective step that I'm missing?  That is you
> look at all the amenity, and make a judgement call on the category?
> 
> Ian.
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Re: [talk-au] Re campsites

[David Bannon]

Yeah, given the weather you guys have had, I'd expect plenty of water
there right now ! Wish we could have some of it 

On Mon, 2015-05-04 at 05:00 +1000, Adrian Plaskitt wrote:
> Greetings all. I think toilets and  presence of drinking water should be 
> separate pieces of information easily obvious to any user. While all 
> campsites with drinking water will have toilets, the reverse is often not 
> true in NSW. 
> I was at one last weekend - fairly large and popular ( room for 30 or 40 
> tents and vans), within 2 hours drive from sydney, and it had no water except 
> for unreliable tank water. ( plenty last weekend lol). 
> 
> http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/Dharug-National-Park/Mill-Creek-campground/camping

Sounds to me like it needs be tagged as -

tourism=camp_site
camp_site=basic
amenity=toilet

The issue here might be the idea that the water there is "unreliable".
I'd use drinking_water:seasonal=yes, seems some 4K uses of that sort of
structure.

My point is that using camp_site=basic does not exclude you from
describing the camp_site using the other existing tags. Again, its a
short cut to assist in finding a possibly suitable site, end users will
quite likely seek additional info beyond camp_site=*.

David 

> This information is of interest to cycle tourists particularly, who need to 
> manage water supplies quite carefully. It is depressing to get to the 
> campsite only to realise you have to cycle another 10ks to get water. So I 
> would suggest the second tier be basic plus toilets without an assumption 
> about water. I do realise cycle tourists are only a small user group and will 
> probably use other more detailed resources though.  
> Cheers Adrian 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 3 May 2015, at 10:02 pm, talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote:
> > 
> > Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
> >talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >talk-au-requ...@openstreetmap.org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >talk-au-ow...@openstreetmap.org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >   1. Re: camp sites (Ian Sergeant)
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 17:43:11 +1000
> > From: Ian Sergeant 
> > To: Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>
> > Cc: OSM - Talk-au 
> > Subject: Re: [talk-au] camp sites
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> > 
> > On 3 May 2015 at 15:27, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> Whatever way it is cut there is a 'responsiblity', and I'd rather see the
> >> 'rules' and have the mapper make the choice from local knowledge rather
> >> than pass it to some remote person who can only judge it from a yes/no
> >> answer.
> > 
> > I'm in also in favour of subjective decisions, when we need a subjective
> > decision, to be made close to the source.
> > 
> > However, there are some tags that simply aim to group objective facts by
> > applying a ruleset to them.  From the description this looks like one of
> > those cases.  I look to see what amenity a campsite has, look up the
> > proposal, and decide on a category to assign it to.  I can choose to list
> > the amenities too if I want.
> > 
> > People might misinterpret the ruleset, and meanwhile, we are losing hard
> > data about the amenities.
> > 
> > Is there supposed to be a subjective step that I'm missing?  That is you
> > look at all the amenity, and make a judgement call on the category?
> > 
> > Ian.
> > -- next part --
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> > Subject: Digest Footer
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Re: [talk-au] Re campsites

[Bryce Nesbitt]

On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 12:00 PM, Adrian Plaskitt 
wrote:
>
> Greetings all. I think toilets and  presence of drinking water should be
separate pieces of information easily obvious to any user. While all
campsites with drinking water will have toilets, the reverse is often not
true in NSW.


Hmm.. I've camped at sites with water but no developed toilets.




What is more common though is a campsite with water, but no developed water:

   - developed, potable water (drinking_water=yes)
   - available clean water (spring)
   - available untreated water (potable if filtered or boilet)
   - compromised water (difficult or impossible to make potable)
   - no water seasonally
   - no water in any season (drinking_water=no)
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