Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[osm.talk-au]

Fair enough. That’s a very different situation from what I’m usually mapping.

 

From: Graeme Fitzpatrick  
Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2021 10:54
To: osm.talk...@thorsten.engler.id.au
Cc: OpenStreetMap 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

 

I don't disagree with any of your comments!, but these are in a rural, rather 
than a built-up area, so IMHO the situation is slightly different?

 

I've done a similar thing on a property I know in Western Qld where the 
"driveway"is ~2 k long from the road to the house paddock, & also named that 
with the property name.

 

Sure, you can put the name on the property itself, but which one of the tracks 
actually leads to the house, rather than the shearing shed?

 

Thanks

 

Graeme

 

 

On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 22:44, mailto:osm.talk...@thorsten.engler.id.au> > wrote:

Where driveways end at a garage door (which is pretty much all driveways I’ve 
mapped), I’ve connected the driveway to a node shared with the building outline 
and tagged as entrance=garage. As the garages are pretty much all part of the 
main buildings, which have address tags on them, data consumers should be able 
to clearly identify the address of the driveway in that case.

 

From: Kim Oldfield via Talk-au mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> > 
Sent: Friday, 24 September 2021 21:33
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-au@openstreetmap.org> 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

 

The wiki suggests you should use the addr tags instead:

addr:street=Jardine Road
addr:housenumber=32
addr:unit=a/b/c or leave off for common driveway

I have tried this in the past, but validation tools complained.
I'm not sure if it is acceptable to set an address on a driveway.

On 24/9/21 10:02 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

z

On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40, mailto:fors...@ozonline.com.au> > wrote:

Hi
I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with  
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only

 

I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?

 

No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a mail box 
beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street sign?

 

As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if there's 
overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!

 

 Thanks 

 

Graeme


?

Tony

> On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  <mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com> > wrote:
>
>> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
>> separate ways?
>>
>
> Yep.
>
> Here's one that I did recently:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
> apparently a single property that was sub-divided.
>
> (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
> further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
> not visible)
>
> Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go
> down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A
> is right up the end.
>
> "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C
> junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
> house.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>




 

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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

I don't disagree with any of your comments!, but these are in a rural,
rather than a built-up area, so IMHO the situation is slightly different?

I've done a similar thing on a property I know in Western Qld where the
"driveway"is ~2 k long from the road to the house paddock, & also named
that with the property name.

Sure, you can put the name on the property itself, but which one of the
tracks actually leads to the house, rather than the shearing shed?

Thanks

Graeme


On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 22:44,  wrote:

> Where driveways end at a garage door (which is pretty much all driveways
> I’ve mapped), I’ve connected the driveway to a node shared with the
> building outline and tagged as entrance=garage. As the garages are pretty
> much all part of the main buildings, which have address tags on them, data
> consumers should be able to clearly identify the address of the driveway in
> that case.
>
>
>
> *From:* Kim Oldfield via Talk-au 
> *Sent:* Friday, 24 September 2021 21:33
> *To:* talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways
>
>
>
> The wiki suggests you should use the addr tags instead:
>
> addr:street=Jardine Road
> addr:housenumber=32
> addr:unit=a/b/c or leave off for common driveway
>
> I have tried this in the past, but validation tools complained.
> I'm not sure if it is acceptable to set an address on a driveway.
>
> On 24/9/21 10:02 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> z
>
> On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40,  wrote:
>
> Hi
> I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only
>
>
>
> I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?
>
>
>
> No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a
> mail box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street
> sign?
>
>
>
> As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if
> there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!
>
>
>
>  Thanks
>
>
>
> Graeme
>
>
> ?
>
> Tony
>
> > On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
> >> separate ways?
> >>
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > Here's one that I did recently:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
> > apparently a single property that was sub-divided.
> >
> > (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
> > further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
> > not visible)
> >
> > Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you
> go
> > down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road &
> A
> > is right up the end.
> >
> > "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A
> / C
> > junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
> > house.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[osm.talk-au]

Where driveways end at a garage door (which is pretty much all driveways I’ve 
mapped), I’ve connected the driveway to a node shared with the building outline 
and tagged as entrance=garage. As the garages are pretty much all part of the 
main buildings, which have address tags on them, data consumers should be able 
to clearly identify the address of the driveway in that case.

 

From: Kim Oldfield via Talk-au  
Sent: Friday, 24 September 2021 21:33
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

 

The wiki suggests you should use the addr tags instead:

addr:street=Jardine Road
addr:housenumber=32
addr:unit=a/b/c or leave off for common driveway

I have tried this in the past, but validation tools complained.
I'm not sure if it is acceptable to set an address on a driveway.

On 24/9/21 10:02 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

z

On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40, mailto:fors...@ozonline.com.au> > wrote:

Hi
I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with  
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only

 

I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?

 

No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a mail box 
beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street sign?

 

As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if there's 
overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!

 

 Thanks 

 

Graeme


?

Tony

> On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  <mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com> > wrote:
>
>> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
>> separate ways?
>>
>
> Yep.
>
> Here's one that I did recently:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
> apparently a single property that was sub-divided.
>
> (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
> further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
> not visible)
>
> Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go
> down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A
> is right up the end.
>
> "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C
> junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
> house.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>









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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Kim Oldfield via Talk-au]

The wiki suggests you should use the addr tags instead:

addr:street=Jardine Road
addr:housenumber=32
addr:unit=a/b/c or leave off for common driveway

I have tried this in the past, but validation tools complained.
I'm not sure if it is acceptable to set an address on a driveway.

On 24/9/21 10:02 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

z
On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40, > wrote:


Hi
I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only



I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?

No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a 
mail box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a 
street sign?


As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if 
there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!


 Thanks

Graeme


?

Tony

> On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan
mailto:webs...@ozultimate.com>> wrote:
>
>> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same?
Just as
>> separate ways?
>>
>
> Yep.
>
> Here's one that I did recently:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456
, which was
> apparently a single property that was sub-divided.
>
> (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery
shows it
> further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub,
but it's
> not visible)
>
> Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get
to 32 you go
> down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside
the road & A
> is right up the end.
>
> "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in
to the A / C
> junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32
to each
> house.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>





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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan]

Under what I'm suggesting, "32" would become service=driveway, 
driveway=pipestem.


So it's completely compatible with existing tagging - but provides a 
little extra information.


cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

On 24/09/2021 9:16 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  wrote:


Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
separate ways?



Yep.

Here's one that I did recently:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
apparently a single property that was sub-divided.

(Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
not visible)

Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go
down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A
is right up the end.

"32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C
junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
house.

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Diacritic]

Hey Graeme,

While I understand your reasoning about naming the driveways, but I 
don't believe it is a good idea.


It isn't really the name of the roadway. By analogy, a sign saying 
"Entrance" at a hotel wouldn't make name of the driveway "Entrance". A 
numbered letter box next to a driveway is an entrance sign in a 
different form.


Perhaps a relation with type 'entrance' would be the most appropriate 
way to capture this connection from street->building?


On 2021-09-24 00:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40,  wrote:


Hi
I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only


I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?

No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a 
mail box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a 
street sign?


As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if 
there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!


Thanks

Graeme


?

Tony

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  
wrote:


Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just 
as

separate ways?



Yep.

Here's one that I did recently:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
apparently a single property that was sub-divided.

(Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but 
it's

not visible)

Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 
you go
down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the 
road & A

is right up the end.

"32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the 
A / C
junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to 
each

house.

Thanks

Graeme



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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 09:40,  wrote:

> Hi
> I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only


I don't "think" it goes against the grain of anything listed there?

No, driveways aren't (usually) signposted, but there will usually be a mail
box beside them saying "32" - is that good enough to use as a street sign?

As mentioned, I did it that way to help people find the property - if
there's overwhelming objection to it, I'll stop!

 Thanks

Graeme

>
> ?
>
> Tony
>
> > On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
> >> separate ways?
> >>
> >
> > Yep.
> >
> > Here's one that I did recently:
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
> > apparently a single property that was sub-divided.
> >
> > (Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
> > further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
> > not visible)
> >
> > Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you
> go
> > down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road &
> A
> > is right up the end.
> >
> > "32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A
> / C
> > junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
> > house.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Graeme
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[forster]

Hi
I see that you have named the driveways. How does this sit with  
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Name_is_the_name_only

?

Tony


On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  wrote:


Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
separate ways?



Yep.

Here's one that I did recently:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
apparently a single property that was sub-divided.

(Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
not visible)

Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go
down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A
is right up the end.

"32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C
junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
house.

Thanks

Graeme







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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 20:17, Tom Brennan  wrote:

> Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as
> separate ways?
>

Yep.

Here's one that I did recently:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/-28.07919/153.23456, which was
apparently a single property that was sub-divided.

(Notes: I've just repositioned 32b's driveway as new imagery shows it
further over to the side, & 32d could have it's own short stub, but it's
not visible)

Anybody (particularly Emergency Services!) can see that to get to 32 you go
down here, & B is over there, C down that way, D right beside the road & A
is right up the end.

"32" is a service=driveway (+ access=private) from the road in to the A / C
junction, & each of the other three are exactly the same from 32 to each
house.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan]

I had never heard of "pipestem", but the actual key name isn't really 
relevant - any more than say "sidewalk" in Australia.


The wiki definition for "pipestem" is "shared driveway", which is what 
we're looking to help distinguish from single driveway (service=driveway).


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
As Graeme says, that appears to be highway=residential.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

On 23/09/2021 8:59 am, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:

Hi

The possibility of retagging user HighRouleur's highway= service 
service=driveway ways to highway= service service=driveway 
driveway=pipestem
occurred to me as well. But I have never heard of a pipestem before. 
Maybe its something that is only done in the US? My thought was that if 
I don't fully understand a tag I shouldn't be using it. Does a pipestem 
describe https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225 better than the 
simpler

highway= service? I think I prefer highway= service

Tony



In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
land, on which the shared driveway sits.

The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to
multiple properties.

So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the 
wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems

What do people think?

The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.

An example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517

Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan via Talk-au]

Yes, agree that legally public roads should be classified as 
highway=residential/unclassified or service=alley as appropriate.


Pipestem (not pipestream :) ) is purely for shared (probably private) 
driveways.


cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

On 23/09/2021 12:27 pm, Alex Sims wrote:

Hi,

I hadn't seen the "pipestream" before, and it does look to have some utility.

I'd much prefer that (legally) public roads be highway=residential/unclassified 
etc so as these will all be present in government data.

If it's private (even shared between many people) then it should be a 
pipestream or driveway or whatever so as to know you won't find it in a 
government based list and need to rely on survey on the ground or an aerial 
photo or whatever.

Alex

On 23/9/21, 11:51 am, "fors...@ozonline.com.au"  
wrote:

 "so why isn't it just a simple highway=residential?"

 in this case https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
 either highway=service or highway=residential are OK with me

 highway=service can be achieved by reversion in this case and there
 are approximately 5000 ways to deal with. Not all are lanes but I
 don't want to manually search 5000 ways looking for lanes tagged as
 driveway

 



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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan]

Graeme - are you saying that you are tagging them all the same? Just as 
separate ways?


cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

On 23/09/2021 9:11 am, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:

When I've found the same situation, I've just left it as a single
service=driveway from the road to where it splits, then two (or however
many) more driveways from that point to each house.

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan  wrote:


In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
land, on which the shared driveway sits.

The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple
properties.

So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the
wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems

What do people think?

The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.

An example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517

Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan]

I'm not much of a fan of the term "pipestem", but as you say, the actual 
key name is irrelevant - as long as the use is agreed. Certainly, I just 
mentally translate it as "shared_driveway".


It seems to fill a useful niche, given the number of times recently I've 
seen a driveway leading to multiple properties.


cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

On 23/09/2021 11:47 am, Andrew Harvey wrote:

driveway=pipestream sounds good. It's got more usage than
service=pipestream. It's nice to have a way to distinguish these from
non-shared driveways.

I've never heard the term before either, must be american, but that's fine,
many of the existing key values are UK terms and don't apply globally, so
these can be localised to simply "shared driveway" like we already do for
other tags at
https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/id-editor/viewstrings/#en_AU/presets/179749902?q=translated%3Ayes

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan  wrote:


In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
land, on which the shared driveway sits.

The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple
properties.

So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the
wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems

What do people think?

The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.

An example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517

Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Andrew Harvey]

Thanks to Phil for pointing out to me it's "pipestem" not "pipestream".

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 12:34, Alex Sims  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I hadn't seen the "pipestream" before, and it does look to have some
> utility.
>
> I'd much prefer that (legally) public roads be
> highway=residential/unclassified etc so as these will all be present in
> government data.
>
> If it's private (even shared between many people) then it should be a
> pipestream or driveway or whatever so as to know you won't find it in a
> government based list and need to rely on survey on the ground or an aerial
> photo or whatever.
>
> Alex
>
> On 23/9/21, 11:51 am, "fors...@ozonline.com.au" 
> wrote:
>
> "so why isn't it just a simple highway=residential?"
>
> in this case https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
> either highway=service or highway=residential are OK with me
>
> highway=service can be achieved by reversion in this case and there
> are approximately 5000 ways to deal with. Not all are lanes but I
> don't want to manually search 5000 ways looking for lanes tagged as
> driveway
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Alex Sims]

Hi,

I hadn't seen the "pipestream" before, and it does look to have some utility.

I'd much prefer that (legally) public roads be highway=residential/unclassified 
etc so as these will all be present in government data.

If it's private (even shared between many people) then it should be a 
pipestream or driveway or whatever so as to know you won't find it in a 
government based list and need to rely on survey on the ground or an aerial 
photo or whatever.

Alex

On 23/9/21, 11:51 am, "fors...@ozonline.com.au"  
wrote:

"so why isn't it just a simple highway=residential?"

in this case https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
either highway=service or highway=residential are OK with me

highway=service can be achieved by reversion in this case and there  
are approximately 5000 ways to deal with. Not all are lanes but I  
don't want to manually search 5000 ways looking for lanes tagged as  
driveway




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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[forster]

"so why isn't it just a simple highway=residential?"

in this case https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
either highway=service or highway=residential are OK with me

highway=service can be achieved by reversion in this case and there  
are approximately 5000 ways to deal with. Not all are lanes but I  
don't want to manually search 5000 ways looking for lanes tagged as  
driveway


Tony



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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Andrew Harvey]

driveway=pipestream sounds good. It's got more usage than
service=pipestream. It's nice to have a way to distinguish these from
non-shared driveways.

I've never heard the term before either, must be american, but that's fine,
many of the existing key values are UK terms and don't apply globally, so
these can be localised to simply "shared driveway" like we already do for
other tags at
https://www.transifex.com/openstreetmap/id-editor/viewstrings/#en_AU/presets/179749902?q=translated%3Ayes

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan  wrote:

> In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
> a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
> previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
> Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
> land, on which the shared driveway sits.
>
> The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
> property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple
> properties.
>
> So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the
> wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems
>
> What do people think?
>
> The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
> service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
> existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
> rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.
>
> An example:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517
>
> Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
> of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.
>
> cheers
> Tom
> 
> Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
> Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com
>
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 09:11,  wrote:

> Does a pipestem describe https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225
> better
> than the simpler highway= service? I think I prefer highway= service
>

I've also never heard of "pipestem" driveways.

In regard to Lilliput Lane, it appears to have houses facing directly onto
it, which aren't served by any other street, so why isn't it just a simple
highway=residential?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

When I've found the same situation, I've just left it as a single
service=driveway from the road to where it splits, then two (or however
many) more driveways from that point to each house.

Thanks

Graeme


On Thu, 23 Sept 2021 at 08:37, Tom Brennan  wrote:

> In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
> a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
> previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
> Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
> land, on which the shared driveway sits.
>
> The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
> property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple
> properties.
>
> So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the
> wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems
>
> What do people think?
>
> The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
> service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
> existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
> rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.
>
> An example:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517
>
> Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
> of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.
>
> cheers
> Tom
> 
> Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
> Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com
>
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Re: [talk-au] Shared driveways

[forster]

Hi

The possibility of retagging user HighRouleur's highway= service  
service=driveway ways to highway= service service=driveway  
driveway=pipestem
occurred to me as well. But I have never heard of a pipestem before.  
Maybe its something that is only done in the US? My thought was that  
if I don't fully understand a tag I shouldn't be using it. Does a  
pipestem describe https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/203549225 better  
than the simpler

highway= service? I think I prefer highway= service

Tony



In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite
a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one
previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times.
Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of
land, on which the shared driveway sits.

The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific
property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to
multiple properties.

So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems

What do people think?

The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer
service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with
existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is
rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.

An example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517

Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips
of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.

cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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[talk-au] Shared driveways

[Tom Brennan]

In doing the rounds of the Willoughby LGA, I've noticed there are quite 
a lot of shared driveways. This has likely come about from where one 
previously large block has been subdivided - sometimes multiple times. 
Each block typically has access to the main road via a narrow strip of 
land, on which the shared driveway sits.


The service=driveway tag is "a minor service road leading to a specific 
property", so isn't really appropriate for driveways leading to multiple 
properties.


So I've started tagging some of these as driveway=pipestem, as per the 
wiki:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Ddriveway#Pipestems

What do people think?

The wiki also suggests service=pipestem as an alternative, but I prefer 
service=driveway + driveway=pipestem as it's more compatible with 
existing tagging - for most intents, if a shared driveway is 
rendered/routed as a driveway, that should be acceptable.


An example:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/957104517

Enable the DCS NSW Base Map in ID editor if you want to see the strips 
of land via which each property has access to Fullers Rd.


cheers
Tom

Canyoning? try http://ozultimate.com/canyoning
Bushwalking? try http://bushwalkingnsw.com

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