[talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
Hi. I noticed the other day there is a sign near my house marking a cycle route. The NSW RTA published some maps years ago telling you where the routes are, but the maps are very hard to come by now. The signs marking them tend to be white with blue writing, and sometimes just a little blue sign with a white bicycle on it. My experience has been that you need to know where the route goes, because there aren't enough signs to stop you getting lost. Does anyone know a reference for these Sydney cycle routes? Does anyone know if the "route numbers" are still used? I know some signs still have them - if you can find them. e.g. L10 and L11 near my house. I'm guessing they are "local" routes from an OSM sense rather than regional or national. Have other people been marking the route numbers in Sydney? It would be good if the cycle map had some detail in Australian cities to help find where other people have marked cycle routes. - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
Hi. I have started to create a wiki page giving details of Sydney cycle routes. The idea of the page is to indicate what the coverage is (% complete) and to provide links to the map. Where the route is a connected series of ways and has a relation I have listed the relation as well. It's a work in progress, so suggestions on what things might be good to include on this page are welcome. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sydney_Cycle_Routes - Ben Kelley. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
"Ben Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I noticed the other day there is a sign near my house marking a cycle route. Time to get on ya bike, Ben.. > The NSW RTA published some maps years ago telling you where the > routes are, but the maps are very hard to come by now. The RTA cycle maps are still available http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/trafficinformation/downloads/bicycbicycsydne_dl2.html The maps are out of date, and were never that good. Given our, "map what is on the ground" philosphy to OSM, I would avoid using the RTA information. > The signs marking them tend to be white with blue writing, and > sometimes just a little blue sign with a white bicycle on it. My > experience has been that you need to know where the route goes, > because there aren't enough signs to stop you getting lost. As I mentioned before to Franc, a blue sign does not a cycle route make. > Does anyone know a reference for these Sydney cycle routes? Does > anyone know if the "route numbers" are still used? I know some signs > still have them - if you can find them. e.g. L10 and L11 near my > house. I'm guessing they are "local" routes from an OSM sense rather > than regional or national. Some councils, like Marrickville Council, provide numbered routes through there LGA. The councils websites are generally the best source of cycling information, and there are usually cycle maps downloadable from the council websites for each LGA. I don't believe there has ever been a RTA, or Sydney wide numbering system for cycle routes. > Have other people been marking the route numbers in Sydney? There are no route numbers across Sydney. > It would be good if the cycle map had some detail in Australian > cities to help find where other people have marked cycle routes. It would, but we need to be careful, and have objective standards. OSM cannot be bikely.com. On bikely.com just about every road in Sydney forms part of somebody's cycle route. My strategy is just to make sure that every cycleway, and bicycle shortcut (connecting path) is marked, so it will be possible to say to a routing application - show me the way between two points using all possible shortcuts, cycleways, and quiet roads only. The router would skip multi-lane roads, use 50km/h roads and dead-ends etc where possible. Much like the cambridge cycle route finder does. In other words, find the best route, given the conditions on the ground. If people find the RTA cycle routes useful, they know where the RTA web site is, I don't see the need to duplicate the info. There are some cycle routes that should be maked though. The Kurnell to Homebush, Parramatta Valley, ROckdale City Cycle Route, would be good routes to have on the OSM map I think. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
Hi. On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Ian Sergeant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As I mentioned before to Franc, a blue sign does not a cycle route make. True. I don't believe there has ever been a RTA, or Sydney wide numbering system > for cycle routes. I did some digging today and came up with a couple of things. Firstly, as you point out, there are some maps on the RTA web site, although their usefulness varies. Secondly, it seems that Sydney City council is doing something about cycle routes. I found this link: http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/AboutSydney/documents/ParkingAndTransport/Cycling/CycleStrategyAndActionPlan2007-2017.pdf If you read through that they do list some "routes" as such, with numbers. Thirdly, it seems that the NSW RTA do in fact have state wide cycle routes. I found a document at work today that lists some of them. Sadly I did not keep the URL! I propose that where local councils list route numbers on signage (or in some publication that people might have seen) that these be listed as lcn=yes and lcn_ref=*routeID*. e.g. The signs that Marrickville Council list, or the ones that Sydney City propose. For any state-wide routes (e.g. the ones the RTA propose) that these be listed as rcn=yes and rcn_ref=*routeID*. (Taking some lead from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Cycle_routes) > It would, but we need to be careful, and have objective standards. OSM > cannot be bikely.com. On bikely.com just about every road in Sydney forms > part of somebody's cycle route. This is true, and yet where cycle information is available in OSM it tends to be very good, and because it is easy to edit, more up-to-date. In areas where the International Cycle Map has good detail (not Australia ... yet) it is very useful. e.g. Amsterdam http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/osm/?zoom=11&lat=6868967.36892&lon=545511.20427&layers=B00 - Ben. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
"Ben Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 18/03/2008 08:15:53 PM: > I propose that where local councils list route numbers on signage > (or in some publication that people might have seen) that these be > listed as lcn=yes and lcn_ref=routeID. e.g. The signs that > Marrickville Council list, or the ones that Sydney City propose. This seems sensible, logical and useful. Where the LGA has a cycle route numbering system to mark it as a lcn. AS I said, I only know that Marrickville do this. Clover Moore's dream of a city of Sydney cycling utopia with cycle routes, is still unrealised. The William Street cycle lanes are dead, and it is quite likely when the city cycle routes are built, a few drivers will whinge, and the whole thing will be canned by Frank and Morris. I would be surprised if the council didn't allow OSM to use the information. > For any state-wide routes (e.g. the ones the RTA propose) that these > be listed as rcn=yes and rcn_ref=routeID. I'd like to see the detail on the routes. The only thing I have ever seen that resembles what you are talking about, was the BikePlan 2010 document, which had cycle routes cross Sydney and the regions. The idea was to figure out what the routes were, and then cooperate with councils and to fill in the gaps gradually by 2010. Nothing has really happened with the plan, the gaps remain unfilled, and usually the best cycle route is anything but the BikePlan 2010 route. Again, OSM should reflect what is on the ground, not a dream of the few disempowered engineers in the RTA peds and bicycles area. > This is true, and yet where cycle information is available in OSM it > tends to be very good, and because it is easy to edit, more up-to- > date. In areas where the International Cycle Map has good detail > (not Australia ... yet) it is very useful. e.g. Amsterdam http: > //www.gravitystorm.co.uk/osm/?zoom=11&lat=6868967.36892&lon=545511. > 20427&layers=B00 I agree, more cycling information would be good. I just don't know if the regional route thing will work in Sydney. Take a look at the inner west cycling map at http://www.massbug.org.au/twiki/pub/MASSBUG/WebHome/HCATmap_A3.pdf I think it is a great map, and really useful for cycling that area. Ian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
In the Brisbane Metro area, Pine Rivers shire (soon to be part of Moreton Bay) has maps available of bike routes. I looked at one to see how many there would be to map in the region. From what I can tell, they've marked every wide footpath on the map, as well as shared walkways through parks etc, and actual bike lanes. I'm wondering what tagging we should use for these footpaths. They're not actually bike lanes, but there are signs beside the footpath that show both a bike and a pedestrian, and the paths are wider than most. It is legal for a bike to use any footpath in QLD, so it's not like you can't ride anywhere else, but these are recommended routes. They tend to go between things like a Tafe and a train station, shopping centres, etc. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
I see that gravitystorm now has street level detail for Sydney Yay! See the announcement at http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2008/03/24/more-cyclemap-stuff/and the map at http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/osm/?zoom=10&lat=-4021599.60681&lon=16819266.94096&layers=B00 - Ben. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Sydney cycle routes
I'm not sure if the people contributing to the discussion page are on this list, but there were a couple of issues (I'm paraphrasing here): * It's better to use relations than ways for cycle routes. * What is a Sydney cycle route? Interestingly in Sydney, most local cycle routes don't take you from A to B, but rather they are a series of interconnected roads/paths/cycleways suitable for cycling. Is that the case for other cities in Australia? My memory of Canberra is that most cycle paths are also a series of interconnected ways rather than a single route from A to B. >From some reading on the web it seems that Perth certainly has named regional routes (a step ahead of Sydney there). - Ben. 2009/3/21 Ben Kelley > Hi. > > I have started to create a wiki page giving details of Sydney cycle routes. > The idea of the page is to indicate what the coverage is (% complete) and to > provide links to the map. > > Where the route is a connected series of ways and has a relation I have > listed the relation as well. > > It's a work in progress, so suggestions on what things might be good to > include on this page are welcome. > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sydney_Cycle_Routes > > - Ben Kelley. > > ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
