Re: [talk-au] iD and turn restrictions (Was:Re: Talk-au Digest, Vol 178, Issue 44)

2022-04-29 Thread Phil Wyatt 
Many thanks for the detailed explanation

-Original Message-
From: Andrew Davidson  
Sent: Saturday, 30 April 2022 11:54 AM
To: talk-au@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [talk-au] iD and turn restrictions (Was:Re: Talk-au Digest, Vol 178, 
Issue 44)

On 30/4/22 00:45, Anthony Panozzo wrote:

> This account is either a bot account or someone that thinks they know 
> more than they actually do, every single time anybody does a routing 
> correction this account comes along and “fixes” it based on “knowledge”

Some terminology before we start. To be valid a turn restriction relation needs 
to have:

1. A way with the role "from"
2. A way with the role "to"
3. One or more "via" s that can be either a node or one or more ways 4. The 
members must connect in a way that you can travel

When I say "broken" I mean that one of the rules is broken and when I say 
"knowledge" I mean I know what a valid turn restriction should be.

> from the notes, let me just say I looked over some of the edit this 
> account does and it breaks the routing for the most part, Changeset:
> 120344373 | OpenStreetMap

This changeset deleted this turn restriction:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13905961

which you added in changeset 118257827 and then broke in 118293106 (it only had 
a node via member). When I reviewed this one I decided to delete it because it 
would only duplicate this turn restriction:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/14044389

which you added in changeset 119769921, if I fixed it.

> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/120344373> and Changeset: 
> 120198383 | OpenStreetMap

This intersection had 15 broken turn restriction relation in it:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477255
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477256
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477257
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477258
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477260
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477261
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477263
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477268
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477269
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13557714
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761157
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761161
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761169
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761170
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13991446

You broke 14 and added one new broken relation (13991446). While I was deleting 
these I noticed that the intersection had some sort of cross-your-heart thing 
going on with added ways for turn lanes, so I simplified it to a standard 
traffic light box intersection:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/-34.76387/138.59277

You can turn right from each arm which means we don't have to have any no-right 
turns. There are 4 no-left turns because each approach has a slip lane. Since 
it's SA and at traffic lights then there are four no u-turns to cover that. 
This is exactly the same routing information that was there before, but now in 
a simpler easier to maintain format.

> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/120198383#map=17/-34.76452/13
> 8.59301> are two examples of this account breaking routing, ive been 
> wasting my time spending hours and hours fixing routing just for this 
> shitty bot to come along and fuck it all up over and over again, I 
> would like to ask DWG to take a real close look at this account and 
> see if it can be banned from any further edits under the bot edit 
> policy or straight out vandalism!

I am not a bot. Just a mapper with overpass, the JOSM validator, the to-do 
plugin, and many hours of puzzling over the question of what a broken turn 
restriction relation was supposed to be doing.

A couple of years ago I spent quite a bit of time fixing all the turn 
restrictions around AU, but I have to keep coming back every couple of months, 
as 100-200 newly broken ones get created every month. Mostly because iD will 
quietly break existing turn restrictions or let you create invalid ones and 
then upload them to OSM. I used to put changeset comments on the ones that had 
broken them until a user asked me how they could stop doing it and I discovered 
that there isn't a way to do that in iD.

My fixes should not be changing any routing outcomes as they are almost all 
deleting turn restrictions that iD didn't clean up after a mapper reconfigured 
an intersection. None of the examples you have pointed to have changed the 
routing outcomes as I check to make sure I understand what someone was trying 
to map before I fix it.

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Re: [talk-au] iD and turn restrictions (Was:Re: Talk-au Digest, Vol 178, Issue 44)

2022-04-29 Thread Andrew Davidson 
On Sat, 30 Apr 2022, 11:53 Andrew Davidson,  wrote:

>
> https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/14044389
>
>
> Cut and paste error there. The existing no u-turn restriction is:
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13909088
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[talk-au] iD and turn restrictions (Was:Re: Talk-au Digest, Vol 178, Issue 44)

2022-04-29 Thread Andrew Davidson 

On 30/4/22 00:45, Anthony Panozzo wrote:

This account is either a bot account or someone that thinks they know 
more than they actually do, every single time anybody does a routing 
correction this account comes along and “fixes” it based on “knowledge” 


Some terminology before we start. To be valid a turn restriction 
relation needs to have:


1. A way with the role "from"
2. A way with the role "to"
3. One or more "via" s that can be either a node or one or more ways
4. The members must connect in a way that you can travel

When I say "broken" I mean that one of the rules is broken and when I 
say "knowledge" I mean I know what a valid turn restriction should be.


from the notes, let me just say I looked over some of the edit this 
account does and it breaks the routing for the most part, Changeset: 
120344373 | OpenStreetMap 


This changeset deleted this turn restriction:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13905961

which you added in changeset 118257827 and then broke in 118293106 (it 
only had a node via member). When I reviewed this one I decided to 
delete it because it would only duplicate this turn restriction:


https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/14044389

which you added in changeset 119769921, if I fixed it.

 and Changeset: 
120198383 | OpenStreetMap 


This intersection had 15 broken turn restriction relation in it:

https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477255
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477256
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477257
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477258
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477260
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477261
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477263
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477268
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13477269
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13557714
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761157
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761161
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761169
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13761170
https://osm.mapki.com/history/relation/13991446

You broke 14 and added one new broken relation (13991446). While I was 
deleting these I noticed that the intersection had some sort of 
cross-your-heart thing going on with added ways for turn lanes, so I 
simplified it to a standard traffic light box intersection:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/-34.76387/138.59277

You can turn right from each arm which means we don't have to have any 
no-right turns. There are 4 no-left turns because each approach has a 
slip lane. Since it's SA and at traffic lights then there are four no 
u-turns to cover that. This is exactly the same routing information that 
was there before, but now in a simpler easier to maintain format.


 
are two examples of this account breaking routing, ive been wasting my 
time spending hours and hours fixing routing just for this shitty bot to 
come along and fuck it all up over and over again, I would like to ask 
DWG to take a real close look at this account and see if it can be 
banned from any further edits under the bot edit policy or straight out 
vandalism!


I am not a bot. Just a mapper with overpass, the JOSM validator, the 
to-do plugin, and many hours of puzzling over the question of what a 
broken turn restriction relation was supposed to be doing.


A couple of years ago I spent quite a bit of time fixing all the turn 
restrictions around AU, but I have to keep coming back every couple of 
months, as 100-200 newly broken ones get created every month. Mostly 
because iD will quietly break existing turn restrictions or let you 
create invalid ones and then upload them to OSM. I used to put changeset 
comments on the ones that had broken them until a user asked me how they 
could stop doing it and I discovered that there isn't a way to do that 
in iD.


My fixes should not be changing any routing outcomes as they are almost 
all deleting turn restrictions that iD didn't clean up after a mapper 
reconfigured an intersection. None of the examples you have pointed to 
have changed the routing outcomes as I check to make sure I understand 
what someone was trying to map before I fix it.


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