Re: [talk-au] Causeways/Fords
--- On Sun, 26/7/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: applies to most of australia, we could just make it the default :-) I'm not sure if it's most or not, it would be most the western side of the range, but there seems to be quite a few on the eastern side in QLD where this isn't the case, lots of river/stream crossings in national parks etc more often than not have water in them. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Mon, 25 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: Wikipedia has 2 distinct entries, a ford is something close to the usual concrete slab I'm thinking/refering to, the US version of a causeway looks like a built up piece of land acting like a low bridge, although they do seem to have a Western Australian reference as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_(crossing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway Looking at the photos above a ford looks the closest to what I'd call a causeway. wikipedia does have a disambiguation, because causeway means different things, while offering this definition A causeway is a road or railway elevated by a bank, usually across a broad body of water or wetland. so for that sort of causeway i would consider bridge=yes might be useful. I made some decision when I put in a Causeway near the Darwin convention centre. I looked back to see what was there now, and found it changed by someone to highway=unclassified just a way marked across the water. It is for people only, although a bike would be ok, and the later editor hasn't marked the restrictions. -- Q: What's a WASP's idea of open-mindedness? A: Dating a Canadian. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Mon, 25 May 2009, Mark Pulley wrote: Wikipedia also has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_water_crossing - this is what I have been thinking of as 'causeway'. Do we need a new setting highway=low_water_crossing ? ford should do that OK. We have an interesting language problem in OSM, where the Poms push forward pommie English, and the rest of the English speaking world may not use that word that way, and causeway which has two clear meanings to us and the Yanks, is a good example. Ford isn't in common use in Oz, except in Ford vs Holden. Something else I can't work out how to tag is a jetty, the thing that juts out into water and boats tie up to. But after 8 years of drought here, perhaps I needn't worry too much. -- Q: What's the difference between a Mac and an Etch-a-Sketch? A: You don't have to shake the Mac to clear the screen. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
2009/5/25 Liz ed...@billiau.net: Something else I can't work out how to tag is a jetty, the thing that juts out into water and boats tie up to. But after 8 years of drought here, perhaps I needn't worry too much. Just be grateful you're not trying to teach English to some-one who speaks Melanesian pidgin. There's no distinction there between a bridge, a pier, a jetty, etc. If it's man-made and it's elevated, it's a bris. Trying to explain why English uses different words for what to them is the same thing was difficult. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Mon, 25 May 2009, Stephen Hope wrote: Just be grateful you're not trying to teach English to some-one who speaks Melanesian pidgin. There's no distinction there between a bridge, a pier, a jetty, etc. If it's man-made and it's elevated, it's a bris. Trying to explain why English uses different words for what to them is the same thing was difficult. Stephen I understand. We deal daily with Italians, Sikhs, Turks, 50 + ethnic groups, the English-speaking are a minority here. -- BOFH excuse #352: The cables are not the same length. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
--- On Mon, 25/5/09, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Yup, in New South, when you have a concrete road way built into the bottom of a creek bed, crossing the creek, that's a causeway. Except it's a ford. Except the deff of a ford is that it's usually wet and the slabs in NSW creeks and gullies are usually dry, and they aren't bridges and a lot of them don't even have pipes for water to flow underneath them since there usually isn't that much except when it floods. So while a ford seems the closest fit it isn't the same thing either. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
--- On Mon, 25/5/09, b.schulz...@scu.edu.au b.schulz...@scu.edu.au wrote: They're not marked in though, because the river hasn't been marked in yet either. Along that road they are marked with an RTA road sign which reads FORD. Perhaps we could mark all the crossings which are signposted as such as highway=ford and the rest as causeways or bridges. Well there is no causeway tag, beyond that you have the whole issue that there seems to be at least 2 different meanings depending on where the person is from as to what they are talking about. My original question was in relation to concreate slab crossings which technically aren't fords because they dry far more often than wet, and they aren't raised at all so they're not bridges. I can't find an example of what I mean, I'll have to take a photo of one and post it online in the next few days. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Tue, 26 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: My original question was in relation to concreate slab crossings which technically aren't fords because they dry far more often than wet, and they aren't raised at all so they're not bridges. I can't find an example of what I mean, I'll have to take a photo of one and post it online in the next few days. the definition of it being wet is a pommie problem you need rain before they get wet we don't even have a marker for rivers or lakes which are seasonal (ie, usually dry) i'm not at all bothered if you label a ford ford when the creeks dry - if the creek had water it would be wet?? Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:31:01 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 26 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: My original question was in relation to concreate slab crossings which technically aren't fords because they dry far more often than wet, and they aren't raised at all so they're not bridges. I can't find an example of what I mean, I'll have to take a photo of one and post it online in the next few days. the definition of it being wet is a pommie problem you need rain before they get wet we don't even have a marker for rivers or lakes which are seasonal (ie, usually dry) i'm not at all bothered if you label a ford ford when the creeks dry - if the creek had water it would be wet?? I agree Liz, I was just thinking pretty much exactly the same thing a few minutes ago when Delta's post arrived. It's totally a factor of the state of the watercourse in question. Luckily for us a couple of Fords I went through on the weekend did actually have a spot of water in them, it's been nice this last month to finally see some of that long forgotten rain :D -- =b ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Tue, 26 May 2009 07:31:01 +1000 Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 26 May 2009, Delta Foxtrot wrote: My original question was in relation to concreate slab crossings which technically aren't fords because they dry far more often than wet, and they aren't raised at all so they're not bridges. I can't find an example of what I mean, I'll have to take a photo of one and post it online in the next few days. the definition of it being wet is a pommie problem you need rain before they get wet we don't even have a marker for rivers or lakes which are seasonal (ie, usually dry) i'm not at all bothered if you label a ford ford when the creeks dry - if the creek had water it would be wet?? I agree Liz, I was just thinking pretty much exactly the same thing a few minutes ago when Delta's post arrived. It's totally a factor of the state of the watercourse in question. I agree with Darrin and Liz on this. The openstreetmap wiki also says any water it does not mean that there has to be water over the ford all the time. I take this as if there is water over the ford then a vehicle will have to enter it. The part that says The road crosses through stream or river is more significant as we mark these (stream or river) whether they are flowing or not so if the road passes through it rather than over it on a bridge then it's a ford. I would also consider the case where some roads have pipes ( 1m dia) that run under the road so that when water level is low as it runs under the road but with rain in the area it readily flows over the road. The road also drops down to just above, or becomes part of, the river bed as opposed to staying at or above the river banks. There is also the situation with large diameter pipes (1m dia) where the road stays well above the river bed and is at the same height as the banks. I've always thought of these as culverts but as osm has no definition for this I have marked them as bridges as that's generally what they are. It's either a ford or a bridge that you cross through or cross over a stream or river on. A bridge does not require that you drive through the water if there is water flowing in the stream or river, a ford does even though some may have pipes under them as well. Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Sun, 24 May 2009 04:48:05 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: What's the best way to tag causeways, I've only managed to find a couple of non-official references, and nothing on this page. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features Perhaps highway=ford Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
--- On Sun, 24/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Perhaps highway=ford I did see that earlier but for some reason thought it was different, just looked at the full sized photo and it certainly looks like a causeway, thanks for pointing that out. Another question I thought of after I sent that email, how to show a road narrows to cross the cause way, I actually know of a few bridges that are one way at a time too but they aren't marked or tagged. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
On Sun, 24 May 2009 05:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Sun, 24/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Perhaps highway=ford I did see that earlier but for some reason thought it was different, just looked at the full sized photo and it certainly looks like a causeway, thanks for pointing that out. Another question I thought of after I sent that email, how to show a road narrows to cross the cause way, I actually know of a few bridges that are one way at a time too but they aren't marked or tagged. lanes=1 -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Causeways
Quoting Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: Wikipedia has 2 distinct entries, a ford is something close to the usual concrete slab I'm thinking/refering to, the US version of a causeway looks like a built up piece of land acting like a low bridge, although they do seem to have a Western Australian reference as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_(crossing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causeway Looking at the photos above a ford looks the closest to what I'd call a causeway. Wikipedia also has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_water_crossing - this is what I have been thinking of as 'causeway'. Do we need a new setting highway=low_water_crossing ? Mark P. --- They offered to transport me back to any point in history that I would care to go, and so I had them send me back to last Thursday night, so I could pay my phone bill on time. (Weird Al Yankovic, Everything You Know Is Wrong) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
