Re: [talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...
On 7/7/2016 12:35 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi Even with Warin's proposed edit to the wiki guidelines, I think it is still unclear whether its better to use the value 'private' or 'no' for the 'access' key. (And the various transport mode keys). For example, for tracks in national parks and closed water catchments which have more restrictive conditions for the general public than they do for the managing bodies, such as:'Management vehicles and walkers only'. The guidelines http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Values 'no' No access for the general public seems to me to mean much the same as 'private' Only with permission of the owner on an individual basis Maybe some specific examples in the wiki might help clarify this? The Australian guide should be Australian specific .. not used to give what is a detailed general explanation of a key/value. access tags - as I see it yes - full legal, access at any time. I would expect general traffic here. permissive - open access at present. Maybe withdrawn by the owner. I would expect general traffic. discouraged - access is discouraged but available. I would expect reduced traffic. private - access with the permission of the owner. I would expect little traffic, only official vehicles or property owners. no - no access to the general public. I would expect very little to no traffic. activity types of access delivery - only vehicles making delivery. destination - only vehicles stopping in the locality customer - only vehicles shopping here designated - only vehicles meeting the type of vehicle stated agricultural - only agricultural vehicles (tractors, combine harvesters etc) forestry - only forestry vehicles (e.g. timber jinkers) dismount - for cyclists With access=no I would not expect to be able to apply for access, for access=private I would expect to be able to apply for access (but not necessarily get it). For "Management vehicles and walkers only" I would use access=no foot=yes As that means - walkers can use it - no restriction. General public (other than walkers (foot)) have no access. This excludes cyclist, horse riders etc etc. If there were lots of management vehicles using it I might add motor_vehicle=private. There are lots of different access restrictions existing in Australia .. but they also exist around the world .. so nothing specific to Australia? Tony On 7/5/2016 9:13 AM, Mark Pulley wrote: On 2 Jul 2016, at 3:30 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote: OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a legal right to access public land ... No! The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and at least vehicles from certain tracks. The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the public too .. think about the car rallies held from time to time. Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... how else would the Bathurst Road Race be held? I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did attempt to contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a message' type thiny ... hence this message. Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets. Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of access=no But the tags are access=no foot=yes meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data base. I have been using motor_vehicle=no (or motorcar=no / motorcycle=no) foot=yes (or foot=designated) and depending on other tags bicycle=no (or bicycle=designated if specifically signposted) Mark P. Thanks Mark. That is a good method... I'd use motor_vehicle as that covers trucks, tractors etc. On review I think something for the Oz wiki tagging guide lines page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Access_roads_on_public_land along the lines of "Where an access road crosses public land it should not be assumed to have or not have access restrictions. Where a sign says "Authorised vehicles Only" or you know that access is restricted the tag motor_vehicle=private could be used to indicate the access restriction. Access restrictions for others (walkers, cyclists etc.) should be found on the access wiki page (link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access). To help other mappers recognise the validity of the access restriction a sourec tag can be used e.g. source:access_motor_vehicle=sign on eastern end of road" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au _ This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://l
Re: [talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...
Hi Even with Warin's proposed edit to the wiki guidelines, I think it is still unclear whether its better to use the value 'private' or 'no' for the 'access' key. (And the various transport mode keys). For example, for tracks in national parks and closed water catchments which have more restrictive conditions for the general public than they do for the managing bodies, such as:'Management vehicles and walkers only'. The guidelines http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Values 'no'No access for the general public seems to me to mean much the same as 'private' Only with permission of the owner on an individual basis Maybe some specific examples in the wiki might help clarify this? Tony On 7/5/2016 9:13 AM, Mark Pulley wrote: On 2 Jul 2016, at 3:30 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote: OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a legal right to access public land ... No! The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and at least vehicles from certain tracks. The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the public too .. think about the car rallies held from time to time. Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... how else would the Bathurst Road Race be held? I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did attempt to contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a message' type thiny ... hence this message. Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets. Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of access=no But the tags are access=no foot=yes meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data base. I have been using motor_vehicle=no (or motorcar=no / motorcycle=no) foot=yes (or foot=designated) and depending on other tags bicycle=no (or bicycle=designated if specifically signposted) Mark P. Thanks Mark. That is a good method... I'd use motor_vehicle as that covers trucks, tractors etc. On review I think something for the Oz wiki tagging guide lines page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Access_roads_on_public_land along the lines of "Where an access road crosses public land it should not be assumed to have or not have access restrictions. Where a sign says "Authorised vehicles Only" or you know that access is restricted the tag motor_vehicle=private could be used to indicate the access restriction. Access restrictions for others (walkers, cyclists etc.) should be found on the access wiki page (link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access). To help other mappers recognise the validity of the access restriction a sourec tag can be used e.g. source:access_motor_vehicle=sign on eastern end of road" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au _ This mail has been virus scanned by Australia On Line see http://www.australiaonline.net.au/mailscanning ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...
On 7/5/2016 9:13 AM, Mark Pulley wrote: On 2 Jul 2016, at 3:30 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote: OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a legal right to access public land ... No! The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and at least vehicles from certain tracks. The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the public too .. think about the car rallies held from time to time. Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... how else would the Bathurst Road Race be held? I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did attempt to contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a message' type thiny ... hence this message. Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets. Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of access=no But the tags are access=no foot=yes meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data base. I have been using motor_vehicle=no (or motorcar=no / motorcycle=no) foot=yes (or foot=designated) and depending on other tags bicycle=no (or bicycle=designated if specifically signposted) Mark P. Thanks Mark. That is a good method... I'd use motor_vehicle as that covers trucks, tractors etc. On review I think something for the Oz wiki tagging guide lines page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Tagging_Guidelines#Access_roads_on_public_land along the lines of "Where an access road crosses public land it should not be assumed to have or not have access restrictions. Where a sign says "Authorised vehicles Only" or you know that access is restricted the tag motor_vehicle=private could be used to indicate the access restriction. Access restrictions for others (walkers, cyclists etc.) should be found on the access wiki page (link to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access). To help other mappers recognise the validity of the access restriction a sourec tag can be used e.g. source:access_motor_vehicle=sign on eastern end of road" ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...
On 2 Jul 2016, at 3:30 pm, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote: >> OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been >> changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a legal right >> to access public land ... >> >> No! >> >> The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and at least >> vehicles from certain tracks. >> >> The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the public too >> .. think about the car rallies held from time to time. >> >> Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... how else >> would the Bathurst Road Race be held? >> >> I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did attempt to >> contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a message' type thiny ... >> hence this message. > > Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets. > Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of > access=no > > But the tags are > access=no > foot=yes > > meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data base. I have been using motor_vehicle=no (or motorcar=no / motorcycle=no) foot=yes (or foot=designated) and depending on other tags bicycle=no (or bicycle=designated if specifically signposted) Mark P. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Legal access to Public land ...
On 7/2/2016 9:26 AM, Frank wrote: OpenStreetMap Wiki page Australian Tagging Guidelines has been changed on 1 July 2016 by Swanilli to say that the public has a legal right to access public land ... No! The NSW NPSW do legally exclude the public from certain areas and at least vehicles from certain tracks. The NSW, WA, SA and Victorian State Forests legally exclude the public too .. think about the car rallies held from time to time. Even 'public roads' get closed to the public from time to time... how else would the Bathurst Road Race be held? I have remove the offending statement from the wiki. I did attempt to contact the user .. but the wiki page has no send a message' type thiny ... hence this message. Found the contact ... made comments on 2 changesets. Confusion may have arisen over plain English understanding of access=no But the tags are access=no foot=yes meaning you can access by foot but nothing else... in the OSM data base. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
