Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > I believe that a separate wiki can be useful at cases, if not only for the > case that it can be potentially be easier to search and to work from it. In my opinion, this kind of "fragmentation" is something to be avoided - lest we likewise end up with a separate Australian OSM database... Liz, are you inferring that the problem is vandalism of Australian content on the OSM wiki? Or something more subtle? I would like to think that these problems can be handled (somehow??) without the last resort of starting an entirely separate wiki. That said, without knowing the details of the problems you're actually talking about, it's hard to comment further. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On 28 April 2010 23:11, David Murn wrote: > If you read what I said, you'll note the end of the sentence 'are > rendered currently'. Yes, anyone can ask for anything to be rendered, > but Im wondering how someone can tag stuff without bothering to read the > wiki. I could comment that you are assuming the only things rendered are on the "official" list, but I can't be bothered to prove things either way just to make a point. > Then again, people not knowing about the existing tagging system might > explain some of the weird things Ive found in keepright, such as the > aforementioned 'highway=Dirt-track' tag I found a couple of times and > tagged properly. Again, you are assuming this issue came up entirely due to disagreements on tagging, this isn't the case and this is why this issue has come up. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On 28 April 2010 13:25, David Murn wrote: > On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 11:12 +0100, Emilie Laffray wrote: > > > I personally don't use the wiki so I am not going to make much > > comments about what is going on... > > Just out of interest, if you dont use the wiki to figure out what tags > to use, how DO you decide how to tag items? Do you just make things up, > or are you referencing some other non-wiki source, which may also need > to be kept up-to-date with Aussie specific comments. > > I don't make things up. I learn from existing features from the map, from other contributors and finally from tools like osmdoc or tagwatch. I do check occasionnally the wiki from time to time, but I don't spend my life on it. In addition, all my major contributions have been road network based from the French cadastre in my home town, and coastline fixing around the world. > > The tags can be whatever values you wish to put in, but only the agreed > upon tags are rendered currently. If someone in Germany tags > highway=autobahn or someone in Italy tags it as highway=superstrada > (relative to the country where they live), it wont render. Just like if > someone decides to tag a way as highway=dirt-road, sure you CAN tag it > like that, but it wont render how it would if it were tagged properly. > > You are making assumptions about how I work which have absolutely no basis. You can do things without necessarily having to read in detail the wiki, while keeping up with more recent tags and methods through social interaction. It is not just a matter of who is reading the most of the wiki. In addition, I tend to care more about the data than the map itself, and that's why I am using tools like osmdoc and tagwatch to make sure that when I use a tag it is already being used. I have some contribution on the wiki namely the technical aspect of the Corine Land Cover import made in France with all the sql. Plus John has been making some very valid comments too on which I agree. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 22:30 +1000, John Smith wrote: > > The tags can be whatever values you wish to put in, but only the agreed > > upon tags are rendered currently. If someone in Germany tags > > highway=autobahn or someone in Italy tags it as highway=superstrada > > (relative to the country where they live), it wont render. Just like if > > someone decides to tag a way as highway=dirt-road, sure you CAN tag it > > like that, but it wont render how it would if it were tagged properly. > > That's not true, anyone can ask for anything to be rendered... There > is nothing stopping people mass mapping a new tag type, and then > requesting it gets rendered or they render their own map tiles, in any > case this isn't just about the documentation on specific tags. If you read what I said, you'll note the end of the sentence 'are rendered currently'. Yes, anyone can ask for anything to be rendered, but Im wondering how someone can tag stuff without bothering to read the wiki. Then again, people not knowing about the existing tagging system might explain some of the weird things Ive found in keepright, such as the aforementioned 'highway=Dirt-track' tag I found a couple of times and tagged properly. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On 28 April 2010 22:25, David Murn wrote: > Just out of interest, if you dont use the wiki to figure out what tags > to use, how DO you decide how to tag items? Do you just make things up, > or are you referencing some other non-wiki source, which may also need > to be kept up-to-date with Aussie specific comments. It's not tag specific, but information, think of it as translations from UK english into AU english... > The tags can be whatever values you wish to put in, but only the agreed > upon tags are rendered currently. If someone in Germany tags > highway=autobahn or someone in Italy tags it as highway=superstrada > (relative to the country where they live), it wont render. Just like if > someone decides to tag a way as highway=dirt-road, sure you CAN tag it > like that, but it wont render how it would if it were tagged properly. That's not true, anyone can ask for anything to be rendered... There is nothing stopping people mass mapping a new tag type, and then requesting it gets rendered or they render their own map tiles, in any case this isn't just about the documentation on specific tags. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 11:12 +0100, Emilie Laffray wrote: > I personally don't use the wiki so I am not going to make much > comments about what is going on... Just out of interest, if you dont use the wiki to figure out what tags to use, how DO you decide how to tag items? Do you just make things up, or are you referencing some other non-wiki source, which may also need to be kept up-to-date with Aussie specific comments. > but I can see why it would be very annoying to someone, especially > while they are some very country specific elements sometimes, and that > by definition tags are not absolute but relative to the country where > you live. The tags can be whatever values you wish to put in, but only the agreed upon tags are rendered currently. If someone in Germany tags highway=autobahn or someone in Italy tags it as highway=superstrada (relative to the country where they live), it wont render. Just like if someone decides to tag a way as highway=dirt-road, sure you CAN tag it like that, but it wont render how it would if it were tagged properly. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On 28 April 2010 11:05, John Smith wrote: > On 28 April 2010 19:26, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: > >> > I think that we need to put our stuff on our own wiki. > >> > >> I don't see how you reached that conclusion. > >> > > Because this is a public list and what I would have written in > explanation is > > either rude or possibly defamatory. > > I read the rss feed from the wiki changes and I have watched recent > events. > > Nothing more will I say. > > While I'm privy to some of Liz's grievances, the bigger problem is > Aussie specific information being drowned out with all the other > information. Unless you knew where to find information about Aussie > mapping parties, you won't easily find it. > > The same goes for other Aussie specific information, it takes time and > effort to drill through links to find things, only to find out someone > has merged in a bunch of information from other unrelated countries so > on and so forth. > > Hello, just to add my 2 cents on the topic, I don't think it is an Australian related problem in itself. I would say that the problem is exacerbated by the fact that you share the same language as other countries. It is common to see some people to try to update the pages according to what is present internationally. I believe that a separate wiki can be useful at cases, if not only for the case that it can be potentially be easier to search and to work from it. Several other communities are thinking about the same thing in order to have something not as intimidating in the end. I do believe though that at least people try to keep a minimum of Australian specific page on the main wiki and try to get everything synchronised in the end. I personally don't use the wiki so I am not going to make much comments about what is going on, but I can see why it would be very annoying to someone, especially while they are some very country specific elements sometimes, and that by definition tags are not absolute but relative to the country where you live. Emilie Laffray ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On 28 April 2010 19:26, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: >> > I think that we need to put our stuff on our own wiki. >> >> I don't see how you reached that conclusion. >> > Because this is a public list and what I would have written in explanation is > either rude or possibly defamatory. > I read the rss feed from the wiki changes and I have watched recent events. > Nothing more will I say. While I'm privy to some of Liz's grievances, the bigger problem is Aussie specific information being drowned out with all the other information. Unless you knew where to find information about Aussie mapping parties, you won't easily find it. The same goes for other Aussie specific information, it takes time and effort to drill through links to find things, only to find out someone has merged in a bunch of information from other unrelated countries so on and so forth. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Roy Wallace wrote: > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Liz wrote: > > I think that we need to put our stuff on our own wiki. > > I don't see how you reached that conclusion. > Because this is a public list and what I would have written in explanation is either rude or possibly defamatory. I read the rss feed from the wiki changes and I have watched recent events. Nothing more will I say. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wikifiddling
On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Liz wrote: > > I think that we need to put our stuff on our own wiki. I don't see how you reached that conclusion. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
