Re: [Talk-bd] Discussion: Issues with name localization for Bangladesh
Dear Frederik, Hope this finds you well. Great to hear from you! I'm Tasauf aka Ribin from OSM Bangladesh community. You might remember me having a discusion with you about data quality, possible vandalism & your advice on that at Heidelberg during SotM. However, I have been involved with OSM in Bangladesh since 2014 & now leading the community's coordination groups. I'm also a board member of HOT. Just to clear up you queries one by one: 1. Most of the people in Bangladesh using internet/map understands the names written in English as English is the second language used from the primary education system. Though in case of writing they preffer to write it as Bangla on Roman script as using bangla keyboard is not yet much popular for the general population. The population under 50 mostly using internet considering both high & avarage educated people do understands & can communicate in basic English while in written but while speaking Bangla is the native. But also have to keep in mind a good bit of english word stock is found on the conversations. People over 50 unless educated are not that much of popular user of internet/ maps. We are still on a verge to institutionalize Bangla in our official use but not even at the half of the way. Personally I would love to see Bangla everywhere but using Bangla is more of an argument of emotion than use case for us for the time being & having changeset discussions/ tagging in Bangla is a good to have rather than a necessity in this stage. Also to keep in mind, even the translation engines often have ambiguous/ inappropriate results as not a lot being done at backend. Most of the signages on the roads of the city Uses both English & Bangla on them, though a significant number has only English nameplates. There are a few only Bangla signboards too visible. If you go to the rural part you will find more only Bangla signage appearing on the scenerio. 2. OSM was introduced in Bangladesh back in 2011. The more coordinated community based approach started from 2015 and OSM Bangladesh Foundation has been legally formed & registered at 2018. As of now anyone contributing to OSM in Bangladesh is considered a member of the foudation though a coordination board is present for handling the legal & organizational proceedures while a team of 45+ mappers/developers mostly known as "BHOOT" s are coordinating the technical, data & volunteer engagement part. The foundation remains open to any individual suggesting / get involved on the regular discussions. The State of the Map Asia held in Dhaka is hosted by the foundation earlier this month where 500+ osm contributors gathered togather. Also, discussions being made to push OSMBDF applying under OSMF local chapter for better calibration. The OSMBD community including the foundation itself has been having discussions/ updates channeled through the facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/osmbd rather than the website itself. So, going through that might give you better storyline. 3. As part of mailing list ettiquete you can eaither use the first or last name of a person you want to address. Having Mr. On salutation with the last name is more formal approach. Usually, in Bangladesh we put Bhai(M) & Apu(F) after the first name as general casual referencing to a person in group. Hope these resolves all the basic queries you have. Will gladly try to cooperate more if you need any. Thanks for being in touch. Tasauf (Ribin) On Sat, 23 Nov 2019, 5:05 am Frederik Ramm, wrote: > Hello everyone, > > the Data Working Group has been made aware of this discussion. I am from > Germany and I have very little knowledge about Bangladesh, so I would > initially like to ask three basic questions that will help me understand > the situation: > > 1. What is the status of English in everyday life in Bangladesh? Can > everyone who uses the Internet also communicate in written English, or > would a requirement of "please write your changeset comment in English" > exclude certain parts of the population? Also, what about signage - will > signs with street names or city names contain Bangla, English, or both > names? > > For comparison, here in Germany, while nowadays most kids learn English > at school, a significant portion of people who are 50 years or older > would not be able to communicate in English unless they had higher > education. > > 2. What is the relationship between the "OpenStreetMap Bangladesh > Foundation" and the mapper community in Bangladesh? How many mappers are > members in the OSMBDF? How can mappers join the organisation, and how do > they democratically influence what the OSMBDF does? I checked the web > site but I found no information about that. > > 3. A general question about mailing list etiquette. Is it usual, in > mailing list discussions in Bangladesh, to refer to other participants > with their last name? If you were to reply to my post with "Dear Mr > Ramm", would that be (a) normal, (b) an
Re: [Talk-bd] Discussion: Issues with name localization for Bangladesh
Hello Frederik Ramm, Thanks for your mail. Regarding your first question:
In every day's real life, we don't speak in English. Even in internet, most
of people write in Bengali or sometime Banglish (Banglish is Bengali
written in latin alphabet. e.g "Aponi kemon achen?" insted of "আপনি কেমন
আছেন?" This is because sometime people don't have bengali keyboard or don't
know how to activate even though their device have bengali keyboard in the
language settings.). Sometime you may find some (higher educated) people
write in English but most of people write in Bengali.
As you said in comparison section, same thing here in Bangladesh, like
every other country most kids learn English at school but more than a
significant portion of people would not be able to communicate in English
unless they had higher education. Not only that, many people wouldn't
undersatnd or cann't read english at all. For example, my grandmother can't
read or understand English, My mother who is not 50 years old can read some
english but not every word and dont understand. Even for me, i don't speak
english. You may say how can i able to write english here, this is because
i am getting help from Google translate. it's taking me two hours to write
this short email.
It really hurts when someone say i should write my changeset in English,
it hurts because i don't speak or fluent in writing in this language. It's
really discomprting in order to contribute.
What is more discomprting and hurts is that when it was told/suggesed to
me/proposed (see archive of this mail) to write primary name ("name" tag)
in English because some foreign people can't read Bengali or some aid
organization cann't read Bengali (anyway aid organization usally get help
from govment or recrute local people in order to oparate. also every data
have a english name in the id, they can esaly read that) while we are
forgation million of Bangladeshi people. (this problem, some foreign people
can't read Bengali, will never fixed, no one can't fix it, even if wait
1000 years).
Although every modern device support Bengali, but yes, some Apps doesn't
render Bengali correctly. This little technical problem is fixable. Our
approach should be contact right people in order to fix this. Not the other
way around (use English as primary).
Unlike our neighbour country India, we don't have 22 official language.
Bengali is the official and *de facto* national language
of Bangladesh. It is the
official and most widely spoken written language of Bangladesh. Every
street names or city names contain/written in Bengali and sometime also
english (but not without Bengali). Primary name ("name = ... " tag) for
Bangladesh in OSM should be in Bengali. Any other language should be added
via their language code.
I have no comment regarding second and third question.
Thank you.
শুক্র, ২২ নভেম্বর, ২০১৯ তারিখে ১১:০৫ PM টায় এ Frederik Ramm <
frede...@remote.org> লিখেছেন:
> Hello everyone,
>
> the Data Working Group has been made aware of this discussion. I am from
> Germany and I have very little knowledge about Bangladesh, so I would
> initially like to ask three basic questions that will help me understand
> the situation:
>
> 1. What is the status of English in everyday life in Bangladesh? Can
> everyone who uses the Internet also communicate in written English, or
> would a requirement of "please write your changeset comment in English"
> exclude certain parts of the population? Also, what about signage - will
> signs with street names or city names contain Bangla, English, or both
> names?
>
> For comparison, here in Germany, while nowadays most kids learn English
> at school, a significant portion of people who are 50 years or older
> would not be able to communicate in English unless they had higher
> education.
>
> 2. What is the relationship between the "OpenStreetMap Bangladesh
> Foundation" and the mapper community in Bangladesh? How many mappers are
> members in the OSMBDF? How can mappers join the organisation, and how do
> they democratically influence what the OSMBDF does? I checked the web
> site but I found no information about that.
>
> 3. A general question about mailing list etiquette. Is it usual, in
> mailing list discussions in Bangladesh, to refer to other participants
> with their last name? If you were to reply to my post with "Dear Mr
> Ramm", would that be (a) normal, (b) an expression of respect, or (c) an
> expression of "you are not part of my group so I will not use your first
> name"?
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
> ___
> Talk-bd mailing list
> Talk-bd@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-bd
>
___
Talk-bd mailing list
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https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-bd
Re: [Talk-bd] Discussion: Issues with name localization for Bangladesh
Hello everyone, the Data Working Group has been made aware of this discussion. I am from Germany and I have very little knowledge about Bangladesh, so I would initially like to ask three basic questions that will help me understand the situation: 1. What is the status of English in everyday life in Bangladesh? Can everyone who uses the Internet also communicate in written English, or would a requirement of "please write your changeset comment in English" exclude certain parts of the population? Also, what about signage - will signs with street names or city names contain Bangla, English, or both names? For comparison, here in Germany, while nowadays most kids learn English at school, a significant portion of people who are 50 years or older would not be able to communicate in English unless they had higher education. 2. What is the relationship between the "OpenStreetMap Bangladesh Foundation" and the mapper community in Bangladesh? How many mappers are members in the OSMBDF? How can mappers join the organisation, and how do they democratically influence what the OSMBDF does? I checked the web site but I found no information about that. 3. A general question about mailing list etiquette. Is it usual, in mailing list discussions in Bangladesh, to refer to other participants with their last name? If you were to reply to my post with "Dear Mr Ramm", would that be (a) normal, (b) an expression of respect, or (c) an expression of "you are not part of my group so I will not use your first name"? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-bd mailing list Talk-bd@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-bd
