Re: [OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

[Jo]

Hi, the first order is to get permission to use the data, of course. To me
the data about which providers make use of a particular antenna (tower) is
more interesting than the coordinates. We have to make them fit into our
context anyway, so it's likely we'll be putting them at slightly different
coordinates. What I would do with them is to create an .osm file with the
original coordinates and load this into JOSM. Then download information
about an area into a new layer. Then copy/paste them one by one, while at
the same time moving them where it makes sense for us to put them (in
relation to the other objects on our map).

Cheers,

Polyglot

2011/4/24 Gerard Vanderveken 

>  There are two things wrong:
> - The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof of the building
> but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace (See their Google map with
> satelite view).
> (Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)
> - The street  before the cafe in OSM is running through this terrace (see
> Bing sattelite view).
> (The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market place)
> the actual street should be located more south-west.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551
> Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and seconds as the BIPT
> site has already 2 formats?
> Coordonnées: 3.95292 E / 50.45506 N
> Lambert: X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18
> Seems the same location as on BIPT.
> Regards,
> Gerard.
>
>
> Linusable wrote:
>
> I have tried a few times this converter website :
> the world coordinate converter 
> From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i tested.
> It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data for a few
> antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central', grand place of
> Mons,
>
> I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the
> position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned point was
> also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images
>
> Regards,
> Linusable
>
> Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :
>
> It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but the
> source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert coordinates
> and got about the same deviations.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ben
>
> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able wrote:
>
>>   Hello everybody, Hello Pol,
>>
>>  i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen (before
>> Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the (openstreetmap)
>> Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as background. The point is
>> café Le Central, at the corner of Grand Place with rue de Nimy.  I suppose
>> the Antenna is on the roof, but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place,
>> with a difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.
>>
>>  What is wrong (or imprecise)  : antenna coordinates or Bing position ?
>>
>>  In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked against
>> a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be), using Fiche
>> Planimétrique45D06C1, with a survey point at position N 50.47149281234526
>> E 4.028218331187543 (Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2
>> meters.
>>
>>  My naive first conclusion is that  the accuracy of the antenna positions
>> could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or cities). This could
>> result to absurd situations like antenna on streets.
>>
>>  Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance of
>> antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ?  or another standard
>> procedure ?
>>
>>  Regards,
>>
>>  Linusable
>>
>>  Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :
>>
>> I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not clear.
>>
>> -*φol d.*-
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken  wrote:
>>
>>>  I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that tower:type =
>>> communications is not rendered anymore???
>>> I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr VRT radio and
>>> tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.
>>>
>>> I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add much, but
>>> instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering and names of the current
>>> places (buildings like churches etc)
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
>>> Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk,  etc
>>>
>>> There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project
>>>
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites
>>>
>>> Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about their use
>>> becomes clear??
>>> For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gerard.
>>>
>>> Pol wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>>  I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write down a mail
>>> explaining the request, why, etc et

Re: [OSM-talk-be] Cell Phones Antennas

[Gerard Vanderveken]

There are two things wrong:
- The antenna at the site of BIPT is placed not on the roof of the 
building but above the white tent / parasol of the terrace (See their 
Google map with satelite view).

(Are the antennas in front of the building against the wall?)
- The street  before the cafe in OSM is running through this terrace 
(see Bing sattelite view).

(The way is not actualy a street but the border of the market place)
the actual street should be located more south-west.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/91685551
Why do you convert the location in degrees, minutes and seconds as the 
BIPT site has already 2 formats?

Coordonnées: 3.95292 E / 50.45506 N
Lambert: X: 120473 / Y: 127218 m
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=50.45506&mlon=3.95292&zoom=18
Seems the same location as on BIPT.
Regards,
Gerard.

Linusable wrote:


I have tried a few times this converter website :
the world coordinate converter 
From my point of view, it's OK, at least for the geodetic points i 
tested. It could be interesting to discuss and chek some original data 
for a few antenna, like the one i mentionned on the cafe 'Le Central', 
grand place of Mons,


I have seen on the website of IBPT: http://www.sites.ibpt.be/ that the 
position 3° 57' 10.5" E / 50° 27' 18.2" N for the above mentionned 
point was also a few meters on the grand place, with the google images


Regards,
Linusable

Le 23/04/11 15:47, Ben Abelshausen a écrit :

It is possible the coordinate conversion was not very accurate but 
the source data was. I had some problems before converting Lambert 
coordinates and got about the same deviations.


Regards,

Ben

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Linus Able > wrote:


Hello everybody, Hello Pol,

i should want to question the accuracy of the data. I have seen
(before Pol deleted the data) one of the antenna points on the
(openstreetmap) Grand-Place de Mons, in JOSM, with Bing aerial as
background. The point is café Le Central, at the corner of Grand
Place with rue de Nimy.  I suppose the Antenna is on the roof,
but it appeared a few meters on the Grand Place, with a
difference of about 5-10m compare to the Bing images.

What is wrong (or imprecise)  : antenna coordinates or Bing
position ? 


In order to investigate Bing positionning around Mons, I checked
against a geodetic point from ign/ngi (www.ngi.be
), using Fiche Planimétrique45D06C1, with a
survey point at position N 50.47149281234526 E 4.028218331187543
(Obourg). It seems that the error is less than 1-2 meters.
 
My naive first conclusion is that  the accuracy of the antenna

positions could be quite poor, specially in dense area (towns or
cities). This could result to absurd situations like antenna on
streets.

Maybe it could be interesting to use a script to analyse distance
of antenna (from the data files) with nearest streets ?  or
another standard procedure ?

Regards,

Linusable

Le 22/04/11 16:33, Pol a écrit :


I deleted them this morning and as long as the situation is not
clear.

-φol d.-



On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:22, Gerard Vanderveken mailto:g...@ghia.eu>> wrote:

I was looking up some on the map, but it seems that
tower:type = communications is not rendered anymore???
I tought they were before, altough only in Osmarender, cfr
VRT radio and tv towers in Overijse - Wavre.

I see some have a name, but I'm affraid that it won't add
much, but instead duplicating and cluthering the rendering
and names of the current places (buildings like churches etc)
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/7911333
Some has also very generic names eg. watertoren, kerk,  etc

There is a Wiki about GSM in the Belgian project

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Mapping_resources#GSM.2FUMTS_antenna_sites

Should the points not to be deleted, until the status about
their use becomes clear??
For the moment it is obvious that it is forbidden data.

Regards,
Gerard.

Pol wrote:


Hello,

I contacted them this morning and they asked me to write
down a mail explaining the request, why, etc etc etc.
That's what I did. If you want a copy of the mail (in
french), just contact me in private.

They told me that they will forward the mail to their law
departement and I should expect an answer next week.

Let's cross our fingers ! ;) I'll keep you updated of the
situation !

By the way, I'll be at the hackdemocracy this Thursday,
April 28,
2011: http://www.meetup.com/HackDemocracy/events/17010026/

Have a nice day all.

-φol d.-


On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 22:14, Pol mailto:d.paol...@gmail.com>> wrote: