Re: [OSM-talk-be] hoe map ik een bus halte ? :-) / how to map a bus stop ? :-)

[Marc Gemis]

So we say the same: for actual trip planning you need a time table. But of
course with the current OSM data you can see which bus you have to take,
which is an important first step

regards

m





On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Jo  wrote:

> Say you have an app like Opentripplanner, the time tables are available
> there, but where the bus passes geographically is contained in the OSM
> route relations. Whether this is important or not, is another matter. It
> isn' t so much for routing, but it is if you want to be able to draw a map
> like the one you can find in this article:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Wouters
>
> The bus routes are in pink, almost invisible as they are only of limited
> importance to the subject or the theme of the map. But on this page it is
> interesting to be able to see them, as I added descriptions about how to
> get to given points on the actual route:
>
> http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ad%27s_Path
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2014-08-21 9:17 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
>
> I'll agree that the things mentioned in the picture are often
>> micromapping. But on the other hand how does an international app knows all
>> this when there is no OSM+ database that contains all this country specific
>> information ?
>>
>> I keep on wondering how useful the routes are for routing without
>> timetables. An application that wants to give me the opportunity to plan my
>> travel via public transportation needs this I think. It's of little use to
>> tell me that I can arrive at my destination on a Sunday with bus X when
>> that bus only passes there on weekdays.
>> But of course, this is a totally different problem/discussion.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jo  wrote:
>>
>>> All bus stops of De Lijn have timetable information, so I don't see why
>>> we'd map that explicitely. I think the same goes for TEC. Even the stops of
>>> TEC I can verify in Flanders have timetables.
>>>
>>> Sometimes the name is present in big letters on the shelter. I don't see
>>> why we'd map that either. A €1 pole with real time information does
>>> seem interesting to tag, although they don't work more than half the time...
>>>
>>> Another tag that might make sense for a shelter is lit=yes. Some
>>> shelters, at least in Flanders, have solar panels on top and when it gets
>>> dark a small lamp can turn on when somebody moves around in the shelter.
>>> Still, even that is much detail with very little benefit, except maybe for
>>> those who are into statistics. If we'd ever manage to actually map all of
>>> those.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm mostly interested in adding information to stops, so they
>>> can be identified for use in route relations and to indicate whether there
>>> are facilities for disabled people, but that is rather detail to be added
>>> to the highway=platform/public_transport=platform way.
>>>
>>> tactile_paving and wheelchair.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-08-21 7:24 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
>>>
>>> Just to make it clear: the picture is not about tagging bus lines, it's
 about tagging bus stops. You refer to a page on the routes.
 Furthermore. it was not a question, I just found it a nice summary for
 what's in the wiki (probably somewhere under the public transport pages).
 Hence the smiley in the subject :-)
 There were a couple of tags that I had not heard of before  (strip and
 the ones related to the time table and other information in the shelter). I
 doubt this information can be found in the Belgian (part of the) wiki. This
 does not always follows the evolution of the other communities.

 regards

 m



 On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:42 AM, André Pirard >>> > wrote:

>  On 2014-08-20 07:40, Marc Gemis wrote :
>
> https://twitter.com/JLZIMMERMANN/status/501356038499868672/photo/1
>
>
> The answers to those questions about our conventions should be found
> here, Marc
> WikiProject Belgium/Conventions/Bus and tram lines (tagging)
> 
> so that anybody can tag without asking the same questions and getting
> the same or different answers over and over again.
> I had to made modifications to those few lines for readability.
> But there was no answer when I tried to raise a discussion about
> missing, essential infos.
>
> Mainly, how must a route extension (optional detour) be represented
> (unclear "(at least) two separate type
> =route
>  relations")?
> Must the detour (e.g. a small loop that some but not all buses follow)
> be represented standing alone (A - B - D - E and B - C - D) or must the
> whole route be repeated with and without the extension (A - B - D - E and 
> A
> - B - C - D - E)
> The 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] hoe map ik een bus halte ? :-) / how to map a bus stop ? :-)

[Jo]

Say you have an app like Opentripplanner, the time tables are available
there, but where the bus passes geographically is contained in the OSM
route relations. Whether this is important or not, is another matter. It
isn' t so much for routing, but it is if you want to be able to draw a map
like the one you can find in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Wouters

The bus routes are in pink, almost invisible as they are only of limited
importance to the subject or the theme of the map. But on this page it is
interesting to be able to see them, as I added descriptions about how to
get to given points on the actual route:

http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Ad%27s_Path

Cheers,

Jo


2014-08-21 9:17 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> I'll agree that the things mentioned in the picture are often
> micromapping. But on the other hand how does an international app knows all
> this when there is no OSM+ database that contains all this country specific
> information ?
>
> I keep on wondering how useful the routes are for routing without
> timetables. An application that wants to give me the opportunity to plan my
> travel via public transportation needs this I think. It's of little use to
> tell me that I can arrive at my destination on a Sunday with bus X when
> that bus only passes there on weekdays.
> But of course, this is a totally different problem/discussion.
>
> regards
>
> m
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jo  wrote:
>
>> All bus stops of De Lijn have timetable information, so I don't see why
>> we'd map that explicitely. I think the same goes for TEC. Even the stops of
>> TEC I can verify in Flanders have timetables.
>>
>> Sometimes the name is present in big letters on the shelter. I don't see
>> why we'd map that either. A €1 pole with real time information does
>> seem interesting to tag, although they don't work more than half the time...
>>
>> Another tag that might make sense for a shelter is lit=yes. Some
>> shelters, at least in Flanders, have solar panels on top and when it gets
>> dark a small lamp can turn on when somebody moves around in the shelter.
>> Still, even that is much detail with very little benefit, except maybe for
>> those who are into statistics. If we'd ever manage to actually map all of
>> those.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm mostly interested in adding information to stops, so they can
>> be identified for use in route relations and to indicate whether there are
>> facilities for disabled people, but that is rather detail to be added to
>> the highway=platform/public_transport=platform way.
>>
>> tactile_paving and wheelchair.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jo
>>
>>
>> 2014-08-21 7:24 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
>>
>> Just to make it clear: the picture is not about tagging bus lines, it's
>>> about tagging bus stops. You refer to a page on the routes.
>>> Furthermore. it was not a question, I just found it a nice summary for
>>> what's in the wiki (probably somewhere under the public transport pages).
>>> Hence the smiley in the subject :-)
>>> There were a couple of tags that I had not heard of before  (strip and
>>> the ones related to the time table and other information in the shelter). I
>>> doubt this information can be found in the Belgian (part of the) wiki. This
>>> does not always follows the evolution of the other communities.
>>>
>>> regards
>>>
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:42 AM, André Pirard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
  On 2014-08-20 07:40, Marc Gemis wrote :

 https://twitter.com/JLZIMMERMANN/status/501356038499868672/photo/1


 The answers to those questions about our conventions should be found
 here, Marc
 WikiProject Belgium/Conventions/Bus and tram lines (tagging)
 
 so that anybody can tag without asking the same questions and getting
 the same or different answers over and over again.
 I had to made modifications to those few lines for readability.
 But there was no answer when I tried to raise a discussion about
 missing, essential infos.

 Mainly, how must a route extension (optional detour) be represented
 (unclear "(at least) two separate type
 =route
  relations")?
 Must the detour (e.g. a small loop that some but not all buses follow)
 be represented standing alone (A - B - D - E and B - C - D) or must the
 whole route be repeated with and without the extension (A - B - D - E and A
 - B - C - D - E)
 The problem is that let us say 3 extensions potentially make 8 whole
 routes.
 Also, if the extension is at the end of the line (A - B - D - E [- F]),
 is it OK to represent the route only once (A - B - C - D - E - F)?

   André.

 ___
 Talk-be mailing list
 Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
 https://lis

Re: [OSM-talk-be] hoe map ik een bus halte ? :-) / how to map a bus stop ? :-)

[Marc Gemis]

I'll agree that the things mentioned in the picture are often micromapping.
But on the other hand how does an international app knows all this when
there is no OSM+ database that contains all this country specific
information ?

I keep on wondering how useful the routes are for routing without
timetables. An application that wants to give me the opportunity to plan my
travel via public transportation needs this I think. It's of little use to
tell me that I can arrive at my destination on a Sunday with bus X when
that bus only passes there on weekdays.
But of course, this is a totally different problem/discussion.

regards

m


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Jo  wrote:

> All bus stops of De Lijn have timetable information, so I don't see why
> we'd map that explicitely. I think the same goes for TEC. Even the stops of
> TEC I can verify in Flanders have timetables.
>
> Sometimes the name is present in big letters on the shelter. I don't see
> why we'd map that either. A €1 pole with real time information does
> seem interesting to tag, although they don't work more than half the time...
>
> Another tag that might make sense for a shelter is lit=yes. Some shelters,
> at least in Flanders, have solar panels on top and when it gets dark a
> small lamp can turn on when somebody moves around in the shelter. Still,
> even that is much detail with very little benefit, except maybe for those
> who are into statistics. If we'd ever manage to actually map all of those.
>
> Anyway, I'm mostly interested in adding information to stops, so they can
> be identified for use in route relations and to indicate whether there are
> facilities for disabled people, but that is rather detail to be added to
> the highway=platform/public_transport=platform way.
>
> tactile_paving and wheelchair.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jo
>
>
> 2014-08-21 7:24 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :
>
> Just to make it clear: the picture is not about tagging bus lines, it's
>> about tagging bus stops. You refer to a page on the routes.
>> Furthermore. it was not a question, I just found it a nice summary for
>> what's in the wiki (probably somewhere under the public transport pages).
>> Hence the smiley in the subject :-)
>> There were a couple of tags that I had not heard of before  (strip and
>> the ones related to the time table and other information in the shelter). I
>> doubt this information can be found in the Belgian (part of the) wiki. This
>> does not always follows the evolution of the other communities.
>>
>> regards
>>
>> m
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:42 AM, André Pirard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  On 2014-08-20 07:40, Marc Gemis wrote :
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/JLZIMMERMANN/status/501356038499868672/photo/1
>>>
>>>
>>> The answers to those questions about our conventions should be found
>>> here, Marc
>>> WikiProject Belgium/Conventions/Bus and tram lines (tagging)
>>> 
>>> so that anybody can tag without asking the same questions and getting
>>> the same or different answers over and over again.
>>> I had to made modifications to those few lines for readability.
>>> But there was no answer when I tried to raise a discussion about
>>> missing, essential infos.
>>>
>>> Mainly, how must a route extension (optional detour) be represented
>>> (unclear "(at least) two separate type
>>> =route
>>>  relations")?
>>> Must the detour (e.g. a small loop that some but not all buses follow)
>>> be represented standing alone (A - B - D - E and B - C - D) or must the
>>> whole route be repeated with and without the extension (A - B - D - E and A
>>> - B - C - D - E)
>>> The problem is that let us say 3 extensions potentially make 8 whole
>>> routes.
>>> Also, if the extension is at the end of the line (A - B - D - E [- F]),
>>> is it OK to represent the route only once (A - B - C - D - E - F)?
>>>
>>>   André.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-be mailing list
>>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be

Re: [OSM-talk-be] hoe map ik een bus halte ? :-) / how to map a bus stop ? :-)

[Jo]

All bus stops of De Lijn have timetable information, so I don't see why
we'd map that explicitely. I think the same goes for TEC. Even the stops of
TEC I can verify in Flanders have timetables.

Sometimes the name is present in big letters on the shelter. I don't see
why we'd map that either. A €1 pole with real time information does
seem interesting to tag, although they don't work more than half the time...

Another tag that might make sense for a shelter is lit=yes. Some shelters,
at least in Flanders, have solar panels on top and when it gets dark a
small lamp can turn on when somebody moves around in the shelter. Still,
even that is much detail with very little benefit, except maybe for those
who are into statistics. If we'd ever manage to actually map all of those.

Anyway, I'm mostly interested in adding information to stops, so they can
be identified for use in route relations and to indicate whether there are
facilities for disabled people, but that is rather detail to be added to
the highway=platform/public_transport=platform way.

tactile_paving and wheelchair.

Cheers,

Jo


2014-08-21 7:24 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis :

> Just to make it clear: the picture is not about tagging bus lines, it's
> about tagging bus stops. You refer to a page on the routes.
> Furthermore. it was not a question, I just found it a nice summary for
> what's in the wiki (probably somewhere under the public transport pages).
> Hence the smiley in the subject :-)
> There were a couple of tags that I had not heard of before  (strip and the
> ones related to the time table and other information in the shelter). I
> doubt this information can be found in the Belgian (part of the) wiki. This
> does not always follows the evolution of the other communities.
>
> regards
>
> m
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 6:42 AM, André Pirard 
> wrote:
>
>>  On 2014-08-20 07:40, Marc Gemis wrote :
>>
>> https://twitter.com/JLZIMMERMANN/status/501356038499868672/photo/1
>>
>>
>> The answers to those questions about our conventions should be found
>> here, Marc
>> WikiProject Belgium/Conventions/Bus and tram lines (tagging)
>> 
>> so that anybody can tag without asking the same questions and getting the
>> same or different answers over and over again.
>> I had to made modifications to those few lines for readability.
>> But there was no answer when I tried to raise a discussion about missing,
>> essential infos.
>>
>> Mainly, how must a route extension (optional detour) be represented
>> (unclear "(at least) two separate type
>> =route
>>  relations")?
>> Must the detour (e.g. a small loop that some but not all buses follow) be
>> represented standing alone (A - B - D - E and B - C - D) or must the whole
>> route be repeated with and without the extension (A - B - D - E and A - B -
>> C - D - E)
>> The problem is that let us say 3 extensions potentially make 8 whole
>> routes.
>> Also, if the extension is at the end of the line (A - B - D - E [- F]),
>> is it OK to represent the route only once (A - B - C - D - E - F)?
>>
>>   André.
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-be mailing list
>> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
___
Talk-be mailing list
Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
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