Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Pieter-Jan Pauwels pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org wrote: Good luck in contacting them. Thanks! ... and I know, we can seem a bit 'extreme' about 'open' at times! ;-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Ben, The person behind the engine is Rob Geertsen, robgeert...@gmail.com I tweeted about collaborating with them and they marked that tweet as favorite, but didn't really respond. It sure looks like they are unaware of OSM since they use google maps which I find a very odd choice given the level of detail at deeper zoom levels vs OSM is huge, especially in the cities. It's a VZW so perhaps the business plan isn't that important to them, the owners just seem to be physically bound to a wheelchair, so they have personal interest in this matter. They do have an impressive partner list, I wonder how they got that sorted out. The website however is suffering from resource issues at this moment. Glenn On 17-03-15 12:35, Pieter-Jan Pauwels wrote: Hi Ben, Excellent :) That’s the nuance I wanted to hear. Then we’re on the same page here. Good luck in contacting them. Kind regards, Pieter-Jan photo *Pieter-Jan Pauwels* Community Coordinator, Open Knowledge Belgium m: +32 476 66 27 77 tel:+32 476 66 27 77 | e: pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org | w: okfn.be http://okfn.be On 17 Mar 2015, at 12:27, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com mailto:ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Pieter-Jan, On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Pieter-Jan Pauwels pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org wrote: So before we start taking out the pitchforks and scream 'stop monetising crowdsourcing', let’s us approach them in an inviting way. See if we can help them in any way and see what their endgame is. Maybe we’ll not be able to help them in short term, but we’ll have a friend organisation and new ambassadors in the long run. No pitchforks here, my opinion is my personal one about a hypothetical situation that has not happened yet and will most likely not happen. I do think that ethics should be independent of ones dependency on funds or business models. If planning out a business model would exempt me of all ethics-related conderations then I think there is a bit of a problem. That being said, it is possible that the collection of this kind of data needs to facilitated better than we have done as an OSM-community, and if the needed funding can only come from a business model that keeps the data closed then so be it. But I don't believe that to be the case either. I also think it's a bad option to keep my opinion to myself because it may offend future partners. I hope we can cooperate with them even when they know of my personal opinion about the matter. Mine may even be different from our community-viewpoint. I'm also not claiming that any of the above remarks apply to their (future) way of doing things because I have never spoken to any of the people involved. I'm just voicing my fear about the matter because we have never been contacted and part of our community is try to collect exactly the same data. The obvious next step is to contact them and ask them how we can help them improve open accesibility data. I think we can all agree on that! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org mailto:Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: I tweeted about collaborating with them and they marked that tweet as favorite, but didn't really respond. It sure looks like they are unaware of OSM since they use google maps which I find a very odd choice given the level of detail at deeper zoom levels vs OSM is huge, especially in the cities. It's a VZW so perhaps the business plan isn't that important to them, the owners just seem to be physically bound to a wheelchair, so they have personal interest in this matter. They do have an impressive partner list, I wonder how they got that sorted out. Awesome, I see mapping parties in the future. Can you email them Glenn? Do I create a project in asana? ;-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Invite them to the mapping party in Brussels on April 25 ? We will try do some mapping for wheelchairs then. It might be interesting to meet face-to-face. regards m On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: I tweeted about collaborating with them and they marked that tweet as favorite, but didn't really respond. It sure looks like they are unaware of OSM since they use google maps which I find a very odd choice given the level of detail at deeper zoom levels vs OSM is huge, especially in the cities. It's a VZW so perhaps the business plan isn't that important to them, the owners just seem to be physically bound to a wheelchair, so they have personal interest in this matter. They do have an impressive partner list, I wonder how they got that sorted out. Awesome, I see mapping parties in the future. Can you email them Glenn? Do I create a project in asana? ;-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Hi Pieter-Jan, On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Pieter-Jan Pauwels pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org wrote: So before we start taking out the pitchforks and scream 'stop monetising crowdsourcing', let's us approach them in an inviting way. See if we can help them in any way and see what their endgame is. Maybe we'll not be able to help them in short term, but we'll have a friend organisation and new ambassadors in the long run. No pitchforks here, my opinion is my personal one about a hypothetical situation that has not happened yet and will most likely not happen. I do think that ethics should be independent of ones dependency on funds or business models. If planning out a business model would exempt me of all ethics-related conderations then I think there is a bit of a problem. That being said, it is possible that the collection of this kind of data needs to facilitated better than we have done as an OSM-community, and if the needed funding can only come from a business model that keeps the data closed then so be it. But I don't believe that to be the case either. I also think it's a bad option to keep my opinion to myself because it may offend future partners. I hope we can cooperate with them even when they know of my personal opinion about the matter. Mine may even be different from our community-viewpoint. I'm also not claiming that any of the above remarks apply to their (future) way of doing things because I have never spoken to any of the people involved. I'm just voicing my fear about the matter because we have never been contacted and part of our community is try to collect exactly the same data. The obvious next step is to contact them and ask them how we can help them improve open accesibility data. I think we can all agree on that! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Hi Ben, Excellent :) That’s the nuance I wanted to hear. Then we’re on the same page here. Good luck in contacting them. Kind regards, Pieter-Jan Pieter-Jan Pauwels Community Coordinator, Open Knowledge Belgium m: +32 476 66 27 77 tel:+32 476 66 27 77 | e: pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org | w: okfn.be http://okfn.be/ On 17 Mar 2015, at 12:27, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Pieter-Jan, On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Pieter-Jan Pauwels pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org wrote: So before we start taking out the pitchforks and scream 'stop monetising crowdsourcing', let’s us approach them in an inviting way. See if we can help them in any way and see what their endgame is. Maybe we’ll not be able to help them in short term, but we’ll have a friend organisation and new ambassadors in the long run. No pitchforks here, my opinion is my personal one about a hypothetical situation that has not happened yet and will most likely not happen. I do think that ethics should be independent of ones dependency on funds or business models. If planning out a business model would exempt me of all ethics-related conderations then I think there is a bit of a problem. That being said, it is possible that the collection of this kind of data needs to facilitated better than we have done as an OSM-community, and if the needed funding can only come from a business model that keeps the data closed then so be it. But I don't believe that to be the case either. I also think it's a bad option to keep my opinion to myself because it may offend future partners. I hope we can cooperate with them even when they know of my personal opinion about the matter. Mine may even be different from our community-viewpoint. I'm also not claiming that any of the above remarks apply to their (future) way of doing things because I have never spoken to any of the people involved. I'm just voicing my fear about the matter because we have never been contacted and part of our community is try to collect exactly the same data. The obvious next step is to contact them and ask them how we can help them improve open accesibility data. I think we can all agree on that! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Sure, I can email them if you create a task first ;-) I will do it this evening, I'm diving into a 2hr meeting now. wish me luck Glenn On 17-03-15 13:25, Ben Abelshausen wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be mailto:gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: I tweeted about collaborating with them and they marked that tweet as favorite, but didn't really respond. It sure looks like they are unaware of OSM since they use google maps which I find a very odd choice given the level of detail at deeper zoom levels vs OSM is huge, especially in the cities. It's a VZW so perhaps the business plan isn't that important to them, the owners just seem to be physically bound to a wheelchair, so they have personal interest in this matter. They do have an impressive partner list, I wonder how they got that sorted out. Awesome, I see mapping parties in the future. Can you email them Glenn? Do I create a project in asana? ;-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Everything is going to be 200 OK. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Good idea to invite them. On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be wrote: Sure, I can email them if you create a task first ;-) Done! :-) Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Hey guys, as a OpenStreetMap admirer and community manager by heart I want to say this: As somebody who is also completely dependent on project financing and subsidizing: Aside from questioning their ethics we need to consider their motivational grounds for not using OSM at this point. From a practical perspective, using OSM is a no brainer. From a project perspective OSM could ruin their financial non-profit model. Just watch the website and see that they have multiple commercial sponsors, they probably have had some subsidies as well to make this project happen. I’ve heard on news stories that they need to have a deliverable (an app) by April. That means they have clear goals and deliverables they promised and need to deliver to one or more partners. Maybe they even promised a sustainable business model after the release (eg. selling the app). This is a lot of pressure for a young organisation like themselves and if then some organisation comes round and says: Hey, we have been doing the same thing, for free, with no sponsors, but more volunteers than you can even imagine. That’s not what they need to hear. Granted that, they should have done their homework, and should know about wheelmap.org and OpenStreetMap Belgium in the first place. So before we start taking out the pitchforks and scream 'stop monetising crowdsourcing', let’s us approach them in an inviting way. See if we can help them in any way and see what their endgame is. Maybe we’ll not be able to help them in short term, but we’ll have a friend organisation and new ambassadors in the long run. Just me two cents… Kind regards, Pieter-Jan Pieter-Jan Pauwels Community Coordinator, Open Knowledge Belgium m: +32 476 66 27 77 tel:+32 476 66 27 77 | e: pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org | w: okfn.be http://okfn.be/ On 14 Mar 2015, at 15:19, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: I assume everybody here knows that there is also an app based on osm : http://wheelmap.org/ http://wheelmap.org/ Yes, I even tweeted it to them already. I hope they can cooperate with us and let's hope focus is not on monetizing their crowd-sourced data. This would be ethically very questionable in my view, especially when the topic of accesibility is concerned. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote: I assume everybody here knows that there is also an app based on osm : http://wheelmap.org/ Yes, I even tweeted it to them already. I hope they can cooperate with us and let's hope focus is not on monetizing their crowd-sourced data. This would be ethically very questionable in my view, especially when the topic of accesibility is concerned. Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
I assume everybody here knows that there is also an app based on osm : http://wheelmap.org/ regards m On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:25 AM, Nicolas Pettiaux nico...@pettiaux.be wrote: Thanks for the try to get the data opened ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Thanks for the try to get the data opened ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
I attempted the same via twitter, got a reply but not very useful! https://mobile.twitter.com/WheelsApp/status/566189163356360704 Maybe I should try again and ask for their data? Cheers, Ben On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com wrote: Again in the media: http://onwheelsapp.com (see the VRT news f.e.) Too bad they seem to use a proprietary dataset to start from. The data is as such closed, and completely depends on the activity of the current team around it. Sigh (and yes, I did try to contact them some months ago, but never got a reply) -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Hi everyone, I know right! I thought linking to Wheelmap would open up their goals, but they just kinda politely answered and that was it. I hope my tweet didn’t come across as I just said ‘you’re too late these guys are already doing it’. I would suggest to approach them, yes. PJ Pieter-Jan Pauwels Community Coordinator, Open Knowledge Belgium m: +32 476 66 27 77 tel:+32 476 66 27 77 | e: pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org mailto:pieter-jan.pauw...@okfn.org | w: okfn.be http://okfn.be/ On 12 Mar 2015, at 20:29, Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com wrote: I attempted the same via twitter, got a reply but not very useful! https://mobile.twitter.com/WheelsApp/status/566189163356360704 https://mobile.twitter.com/WheelsApp/status/566189163356360704 Maybe I should try again and ask for their data? Cheers, Ben On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com mailto:sander...@gmail.com wrote: Again in the media: http://onwheelsapp.com http://onwheelsapp.com/ (see the VRT news f.e.) Too bad they seem to use a proprietary dataset to start from. The data is as such closed, and completely depends on the activity of the current team around it. Sigh (and yes, I did try to contact them some months ago, but never got a reply) -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Best regards, Ben Abelshausen ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk-be] On Wheels
Again in the media: http://onwheelsapp.com (see the VRT news f.e.) Too bad they seem to use a proprietary dataset to start from. The data is as such closed, and completely depends on the activity of the current team around it. Sigh (and yes, I did try to contact them some months ago, but never got a reply) ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
