Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

On 2015-07-27 18:56, Jo wrote :
> In the case of Openstreetmap (and of Google), this is 1 entity which
> have several servers.
> In the case of Overpass API, these are different parties running
> (possibly different versions) of the same software. They may have
> different policies for updating the data or for the region they
> deliver services for.
Je sais, mais tous ces problèmes sont solubles.
Ce que j'imagine, c'est une amorce de solution de farming auquel
pourraient, sachant que faire, venir s'ajouter petit à petit des
machines ayant des ressources matérielles libres et travaillant en
miroir, plutôt que de stagner dans l'immobilisme d'un ou deux serveurs
surmenés.
Ce serait dommage que openpoimap devienne populaire, qu'il atteigne un
seuil critique d'engorgement des serveurs et qu'on demande de le supprimer.

André.


> For software/services where this doesn't matter, it's still possible
> to try and use the servers with a fallback system. If one doesn't
> answer, try another.
>
> Jo
>
> 2015-07-27 18:47 GMT+02:00 André Pirard  >:
>
> On 2015-07-25 22:01, Marc Zoutendijk wrote :
>> Recently OSMF asked for money to support their servers and within
>> short time they collected that money from the community.[1]
>> Don't you think that if a service (like overpass) is succesfull
>> and really needed, they should do everything possible to improve
>> that service and keep it for the community?
> This is already possible somehow for no money.
> It might be suggested that all the servers running overpass be
> accessed with a single DNS name like overpass.openstreetmap.org
>  that would contain, with a
> short TTL,  the IP addresses, or, better, the true names of all
> the overpass servers that can be used.
> This would not only balance the load across the servers, but also
> free the developers from updating their applications when servers
> close or open (and get removed from/added to that list), and let
> the application continue to work if a server is temporarily
> unavailable (an application is supposed to try all the IP
> addresses until they get a reply).
>
> I guess the person to ask directly is (if he replies):
>> $ dig openstreetmap.org  SOA
>>
>> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>> openstreetmap.org .2560IN  
>>  SOAa.ns.bytemark.co.uk .
>> *hostmaster.openstreetmap.org
>> *.
>
> That is what OSM.org already does with 3 servers (addresses in bold):
>
>> $ dig www.openstreetmap.org  A
>> @a.ns.bytemark.co.uk 
>>
>> ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> www.openstreetmap.org
>>  A @a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
>> 
>> ;; global options: +cmd
>> ;; Got answer:
>> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 26370
>> ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 7
>> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
>>
>> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
>> ;www.openstreetmap.org .INA
>>
>> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
>> www.openstreetmap.org .600  
>>  INA*193.63.75.103*
>> www.openstreetmap.org .600  
>>  INA*193.63.75.99*
>> www.openstreetmap.org .600  
>>  INA*193.63.75.100*
>>
>> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
>> openstreetmap.org .259200IN  
>>  NSa.ns.bytemark.co.uk .
>> openstreetmap.org .259200IN  
>>  NSb.ns.bytemark.co.uk .
>> openstreetmap.org .259200IN  
>>  NSc.ns.bytemark.co.uk .
>>
>> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
>> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  INA80.68.80.26
>> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  IN2001:41c8:2::3
>> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  INA80.68.80.26
>> b.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  INA85.17.170.78
>> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  INA80.68.80.27
>> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  IN2001:41c8:2::5
>> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk .86400  
>>  INA80.68.80.27
>>
>> ;; Query time: 47 msec
>> ;; SERVER: 80.68.80.26#53(80.68.80.26)
>> ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 27 18:09:22 2015
>> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 288
> 

Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Jo]

In the case of Openstreetmap (and of Google), this is 1 entity which have
several servers.
In the case of Overpass API, these are different parties running (possibly
different versions) of the same software. They may have different policies
for updating the data or for the region they deliver services for.

For software/services where this doesn't matter, it's still possible to try
and use the servers with a fallback system. If one doesn't answer, try
another.

Jo

2015-07-27 18:47 GMT+02:00 André Pirard :

>  On 2015-07-25 22:01, Marc Zoutendijk wrote :
>
>  Recently OSMF asked for money to support their servers and within short
> time they collected that money from the community.[1]
> Don't you think that if a service (like overpass) is succesfull and really
> needed, they should do everything possible to improve that service and keep
> it for the community?
>
> This is already possible somehow for no money.
> It might be suggested that all the servers running overpass be accessed
> with a single DNS name like overpass.openstreetmap.org that would
> contain, with a short TTL,  the IP addresses, or, better, the true names of
> all the overpass servers that can be used.
> This would not only balance the load across the servers, but also free the
> developers from updating their applications when servers close or open (and
> get removed from/added to that list), and let the application continue to
> work if a server is temporarily unavailable (an application is supposed to
> try all the IP addresses until they get a reply).
>
> I guess the person to ask directly is (if he replies):
>
> $ dig openstreetmap.org SOA
>
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> openstreetmap.org.2560INSOAa.ns.bytemark.co.uk. 
> *hostmaster.openstreetmap.org
> *.
>
>
> That is what OSM.org already does with 3 servers (addresses in bold):
>
> $ dig www.openstreetmap.org A @a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> www.openstreetmap.org A @a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 26370
> ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 3, ADDITIONAL: 7
> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;www.openstreetmap.org.INA
>
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> www.openstreetmap.org.600INA*193.63.75.103*
> www.openstreetmap.org.600INA*193.63.75.99*
> www.openstreetmap.org.600INA*193.63.75.100*
>
> ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
> openstreetmap.org.259200INNSa.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
> openstreetmap.org.259200INNSb.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
> openstreetmap.org.259200INNSc.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
>
> ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400INA80.68.80.26
> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400IN2001:41c8:2::3
> a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400INA80.68.80.26
> b.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400INA85.17.170.78
> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400INA80.68.80.27
> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400IN2001:41c8:2::5
> c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.86400INA80.68.80.27
>
> ;; Query time: 47 msec
> ;; SERVER: 80.68.80.26#53(80.68.80.26)
> ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 27 18:09:22 2015
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 288
>
> and Google with 36 servers ...
>
> Cheers
>
>   André.
>
> $ dig mts.google.com @ns1.google.com
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> mts.google.com @ns1.google.com
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 21896
> ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;mts.google.com.INA
>
> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
> mts.google.com.604800INCNAMEmts.l.google.com.
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.231
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.224
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.244
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.217
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.223
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.245
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.230
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.251
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.210
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.237
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.238
> mts.l.google.com.300INA194.78.0.216
>
> ;; Query time: 41 msec
> ;; SERVER: 216.239.32.10#53(216.239.32.10)
> ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 27 18:21:45 2015
> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 244
>
> $ dig mts0.google.com @ns1.google.com
>
> ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>> mts0.google.com @ns1.google.com
> ;; global options: +cmd
> ;; Got answer:
> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 36260
> ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
> ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
>
> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
> ;mts0.goo

Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2015-07-25 22:01, Marc Zoutendijk
  wrote :


  
Recently OSMF asked for money to support their servers and
  within short time they collected that money from the
  community.[1]
Don't you think that if a service (like overpass) is
  succesfull and really needed, they should do everything
  possible to improve that service and keep it for the
  community?
  

This is already possible somehow for no money.
It might be suggested that all the servers running overpass be
accessed with a single DNS name like overpass.openstreetmap.org that
would contain, with a short TTL,  the IP addresses, or, better, the
true names of all the overpass servers that can be used.
This would not only balance the load across the servers, but also
free the developers from updating their applications when servers
close or open (and get removed from/added to that list), and let the
application continue to work if a server is temporarily unavailable
(an application is supposed to try all the IP addresses until they
get a reply).

I guess the person to ask directly is (if he replies):
$ dig openstreetmap.org SOA
  
  ;; ANSWER SECTION:
  openstreetmap.org.    2560    IN    SOA    a.ns.bytemark.co.uk. hostmaster.openstreetmap.org.
  


That is what OSM.org already does with 3 servers (addresses in
bold):

$ dig www.openstreetmap.org A
@a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
  
  ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>>
www.openstreetmap.org A @a.ns.bytemark.co.uk
  ;; global options: +cmd
  ;; Got answer:
  ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
NOERROR, id: 26370
  ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 3, AUTHORITY: 3,
ADDITIONAL: 7
  ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
  
  ;; QUESTION SECTION:
  ;www.openstreetmap.org.        IN    A
  
  ;; ANSWER SECTION:
  www.openstreetmap.org.    600    IN    A    193.63.75.103
  www.openstreetmap.org.    600    IN    A    193.63.75.99
  www.openstreetmap.org.    600    IN    A    193.63.75.100
  
  ;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
  openstreetmap.org.    259200    IN    NS  
 a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
  openstreetmap.org.    259200    IN    NS  
 b.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
  openstreetmap.org.    259200    IN    NS  
 c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.
  
  ;; ADDITIONAL SECTION:
  a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN    A    80.68.80.26
  a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN      
 2001:41c8:2::3
  a.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN    A    80.68.80.26
  b.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN    A    85.17.170.78
  c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN    A    80.68.80.27
  c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN      
 2001:41c8:2::5
  c.ns.bytemark.co.uk.    86400    IN    A    80.68.80.27
  
  ;; Query time: 47 msec
  ;; SERVER: 80.68.80.26#53(80.68.80.26)
  ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 27 18:09:22 2015
  ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 288

and Google with 36 servers ...

Cheers



  

  André.

  


$ dig mts.google.com @ns1.google.com
  
  ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>>
mts.google.com @ns1.google.com
  ;; global options: +cmd
  ;; Got answer:
  ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
NOERROR, id: 21896
  ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0,
ADDITIONAL: 0
  ;; WARNING: recursion requested but not available
  
  ;; QUESTION SECTION:
  ;mts.google.com.            IN    A
  
  ;; ANSWER SECTION:
  mts.google.com.        604800    IN    CNAME  
 mts.l.google.com.
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.231
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.224
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.244
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.217
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.223
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.245
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.230
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.251
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.210
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.237
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.238
  mts.l.google.com.    300    IN    A    194.78.0.216
  
  ;; Query time: 41 msec
  ;; SERVER: 216.239.32.10#53(216.239.32.10)
  ;; WHEN: Mon Jul 27 18:21:45 2015
  ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 244
  
  $ dig mts0.google.com @ns1.google.com
  
  ; <<>> DiG 9.8.1-P1 <<>>
mts0.google.com @ns1.google.com
  ;; global options: +cmd
  ;; Got answer:
  ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status:
NOERROR, id: 36260
  ;; flags: qr aa rd; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 13, AUTHORITY: 0,
ADDITIO

Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2015-07-25 22:01, Marc Zoutendijk
  wrote :


  
  I am the developper of openpoimap,
  

And I congratulate you deeply.
Myself and on behalf of all the non-OSM computer geeks that I let
know OPM.
All replied that they are amazed and in love.
 C'est une très bonne découverte: vraiment
  très pratique et j'aime beaucoup, surtout avec la base HikeBike ou
  Mapnik.



  

  André.

  


  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

Op 24 jul. 2015, om 09:58 heeft André Pirard  het 
volgende geschreven:

> Impressive but ouch, Marc #2, they use overpass, and extensively.
> If everybody were using their page much, overpass would soon be on their 
> knees.



Who are the "they" in "they use overpass"?
I am the developper of openpoimap, so I know quiet well how it works!

Recently OSMF asked for money to support their servers and within short time 
they collected that money from the community.[1]
Don't you think that if a service (like overpass) is succesfull and really 
needed, they should do everything possible to improve that service and keep it 
for the community?

Marc

[1] http://donate.openstreetmap.org/server2015/___
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

Hi,

My point was that, in this civilization, people are perfectly happy with
many bad links in Wikipedia or elsewhere.
(I, personally, would run a program to check them)
Now, if you want to digress...

On 2015-07-24 21:32, Ruben Maes wrote :
> Op vrijdag 24 juli 2015 heeft André Pirard  > het volgende geschreven:
>
> > FYI, I once wrote an improvement to a Wikipedia page.  A
> self-appointed vigilante came down on me and accused be of
> self-research (what I wrote was as verifiable as 1+2=3). I was
> requested to add a link to a page saying 1+2=3.  I replied that what I
> said could be proved, and that, of the existing 3 links in the page, 3
> were incorrect.
>
> That's because Wikipedia does not aim to tell the truth, they want to
> summarize what can be found in other sources[1]. That's why you have
> to add sources for everything except for the most trivially
> verifiable[2]. Even if you know/think you're right. ;)
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:TRUTH
> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VER
I know that, but I find that those words of Wikipedia you summarize
nicely are complete nonsense in the case everyone would find unnecessary
or even stupid to write that source.
The points of my contribution were:

  * That Google Translation is a two (at least) step process,
translating source to destination via en  s -> en -> d.
No one would have written that except an Ukrainian explaining : s ->
en -> ru -> uk.
The vigilante's question was "how do you know"?
I finally imagined to provide as source[1] the URL of a few
translation cases like this:
/le mot 'obvious' n'est pas français → "очевидными" слово не
французское


/Not finding 'obvious' in the French dictionary when translating to
English, GT leaves it untranslated./
/Finding 'obvious' in the English dictionary when translating to
Russian, GT translates it.
Since my explanation, contributors seem to speak of that 2-step
process without citing a source and without any vigilante intervention.
  * The Google Translation methodology ignores the grammar and fails
when the grammar, e.g. declensions, is necessary to understand the
phrase.  Again, I provided the URL of a Russian to English
translation saying exactly the opposite of the original text because
GT was based on the order and not the declensions of the words.

In short, I find excellent to request providing sources but I find
stupid to, when there are no sources, forbid to say something true that
everyone will learn, understand and agree.
If we were allowed to say only what someone else already said, no one
would speak.

André.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

Op 24 jul. 2015, om 21:31 heeft Marc Gemis  het volgende 
geschreven:

> I meant a permalink to map that shows all restaurants and all bakeries, not 
> places that combine both features, sorry for the confusion. I cannot create a 
> permalink if the POIs are in different "categories" or tabs in your UI.
> 

That is indeed not possible.

Showing both objects on one map is simply done with userpois:
amenity=restaurant
shop=bakery

But again, the permalink is not working for the userpopis. It is on my 
todo-list to fix that!

Marc.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Ruben Maes]

Op vrijdag 24 juli 2015 heeft André Pirard  het
volgende geschreven:

> FYI, I once wrote an improvement to a Wikipedia page.  A self-appointed
vigilante came down on me and accused be of self-research (what I wrote was
as verifiable as 1+2=3). I was requested to add a link to a page saying
1+2=3.  I replied that what I said could be proved, and that, of the
existing 3 links in the page, 3 were incorrect.

That's because Wikipedia does not aim to tell the truth, they want to
summarize what can be found in other sources[1]. That's why you have to add
sources for everything except for the most trivially verifiable[2]. Even if
you know/think you're right. ;)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:TRUTH
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VER

--
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 8:37 PM, Marc Zoutendijk 
wrote:

> Also when I try to combine restaurant and bakery (can't make that one work)
> Or with user defined POIs ?
>

I meant a permalink to map that shows all restaurants and all bakeries, not
places that combine both features, sorry for the confusion. I cannot create
a permalink if the POIs are in different "categories" or tabs in your UI.

regards

m
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

> Op 24 jul. 2015, om 13:09 heeft Marc Gemis  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Also when I try to combine restaurant and bakery (can't make that one work)


Please be aware that the standard rendering of the OSM map gets confused by 
this tag combination of amenity and shop.
As you can see here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2052955372 

only amenity is shown on the map and shop is discarded!

The rules are laid out here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/One_feature,_one_OSM_element 


Also see the discussion on the Dutch Userforum (in het Nederlands):

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=32025 


Marc.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

> Op 24 jul. 2015, om 13:09 heeft Marc Gemis  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> Also when I try to combine restaurant and bakery (can't make that one work)
> Or with user defined POIs ?
> 

I found only one in Begium (in Leuven):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkerijrestaurantleuven.png
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2052955372 



And indeed you should use User Pois for that with this code:
amenity=restaurant][shop=bakery

Unfortunately, the permalink is NOT working with the User Pois.

Marc.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

  
  
On 2015-07-24 12:04, Marc Gemis wrote :


  Are you

  On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 11:47 AM,
André Pirard 
wrote:

  
  The URLs are not stable either, so you can't
really use them for links. People don't use the
possibility to be warned when a link dangles, there
are plenty of blind links, and yet that link system
is used intensively.
  
 
  



Are you saying that URLs like http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/azw
  are discarded after awhile ? I didn't know that. I've
  bookmarked several queries like that, so I need to find
  another way to keep them.

  

  

No. Not particularly speaking of that. I don't know if/when they
discard and I myself don't wonder because I simply use the expanded
or clear request. This is the same as your example.
http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=PCEtLQpUaGlzIHF1ZXJ5IGxvb2vEiGZvciBub2Rlcywgd2F5xIjEliByZWxhdGlvbsSICndpdGggxLJlIGdpdmVuIGtleS92YWzEiyBjb21iaW7EqcSrbi4KQ2jEkXPEtnlvdcSXxKbEuMSsIGFuZCDEhnTEtGjEtlJ1xLxidXR0xZ1hYm_EuiEKxII-Cnt7xL55PcWxxalkYcSNfX3FuHvFgsWEZT1wb3N0xYNfxYfEm8aDxoV0eXDGicSmxKjEqsSsxpM8xoxtLXNjcmlwxaTFmHRwxaw9ImpzxKwixbcgIDzEisSMxI7GlcaXxqzFuca5ZcaDxrEKxrPGszxoYXMta3bEvca7xbrEv8a_IHbHjMaHxIvGvy_GsseCPGLFsXgtxrbEjSDFuceab3jGg8eWx4HG
tC_HnnnHlzxwxqRuxaRtxJrGiSLFsWR5Isemx4PEpmPFmcWVxLTGlse0ZG93bse5x6zHrsWLx7HHs8asc8S-bGXFrsiGx6Y8L8afxqHGo8aldD4

I was saying that the Web is crowded with invalid links, that people
are happy with that fuzzy situation and that, unlike what you said,
a few wrong IDs, much less than wrong links, do not make using IDs a
wrong method.

FYI, I once wrote an improvement to a Wikipedia page.  A
self-appointed vigilante came down on me and accused be of
self-research (what I wrote was as verifiable as 1+2=3). I was
requested to add a link to a page saying 1+2=3.  I replied that what
I said could be proved, and that, of the existing 3 links in the
page, 3 were incorrect.
The Internet is full of contradictors.

Cheers



  

  André.

  



  


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Gemis]

Also when I try to combine restaurant and bakery (can't make that one work)
Or with user defined POIs ?

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:20 PM, Marc Zoutendijk 
wrote:

>
> Op 24 jul. 2015, om 10:10 heeft Marc Gemis  het
> volgende geschreven:
>
> Marc, is there a way to share some query with other users ?
> Let's say I made something to show all restaurants, pubs, hotels and
> cafes. Can I then generate a "permalink" to share that "POI map" with
> others ?
>
>
> Yes you can!
>
> Marc (Zoutendijk)
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

Op 24 jul. 2015, om 10:10 heeft Marc Gemis  het volgende 
geschreven:

> Marc, is there a way to share some query with other users ?
> Let's say I made something to show all restaurants, pubs, hotels and cafes. 
> Can I then generate a "permalink" to share that "POI map" with others ?
> 

Yes you can!

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

On 2015-07-24 10:08, Marc Gemis wrote :
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:58 AM, André Pirard
> mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> May I recall another approach that I presented as a way for OSM.be
> to make money.
> For each "customer" or usage, a POI list is built that contains
> the IDs of the OSM elements + icon URL.
> The server whose task is to display the map + POIs can fetch the
> list from any URL.
> http://server  http://list
> node/way/area ID icon_URL
>
>
> As you know, the ID of OSM elements is not stable, so you can't really
> use them in queries.
> Is this similar to creating an Overpass Query with some mapcss  and
> share that link ?
> I'll agree that creating the Overpass Query might be simplified with
> e.g. picking POIs from a list.
>
The list approach is for s.o. to show their selection: all shops X,
municipality shops..., nearby bus stops, whatever?
Such a list needs maintenance, the POIs are changing much more often
than the IDs and there can be warnings.
The URLs are not stable either, so you can't really use them for links.
People don't use the possibility to be warned when a link dangles, there
are plenty of blind links, and yet that link system is used intensively.

Cheers

André.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Gemis]

Marc, is there a way to share some query with other users ?
Let's say I made something to show all restaurants, pubs, hotels and cafes.
Can I then generate a "permalink" to share that "POI map" with others ?


regards


2015-07-24 8:55 GMT+02:00 Marc Zoutendijk :

>
> > Op 24 jul. 2015, om 07:16 heeft Marc Gemis  het
> volgende geschreven:
> >
> >
> > Joost Schouppe heeft eventjes een vergelijking gemaakt voor Antwerpen:
> slechts 37 van de 294 bakkers zouden gemapped zijn.
> >
> > Dus als POIs je ding zijn, dan mag je gerust zijn, er is nog werk genoeg
> :-)
> >
> >
>
> En met openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) kun je ze ook mooi zichtbaar
> maken:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png
>
> >
> > Joost Schouppe ran a test on bakeries in Antwerp. Only 37 of the 294
> bakeries are mapped.
> >
> > So, when you love to map POIs, you'll still have plenty of work :-)
> >
>
> openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) is a great tool to show them all:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png
>
> Marc.
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 9:58 AM, André Pirard 
wrote:

> May I recall another approach that I presented as a way for OSM.be to make
> money.
> For each "customer" or usage, a POI list is built that contains the IDs of
> the OSM elements + icon URL.
> The server whose task is to display the map + POIs can fetch the list from
> any URL.
> http://server  http://list
> node/way/area ID icon_URL
>

As you know, the ID of OSM elements is not stable, so you can't really use
them in queries.
Is this similar to creating an Overpass Query with some mapcss  and share
that link ?
I'll agree that creating the Overpass Query might be simplified with e.g.
picking POIs from a list.

regards

m
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

On 2015-07-24 08:55, Marc Zoutendijk wrote :
>> Op 24 jul. 2015, om 07:16 heeft Marc Gemis  het 
>> volgende geschreven:
>>
>>
>> Joost Schouppe heeft eventjes een vergelijking gemaakt voor Antwerpen: 
>> slechts 37 van de 294 bakkers zouden gemapped zijn.
>>
>> Dus als POIs je ding zijn, dan mag je gerust zijn, er is nog werk genoeg :-)
>>
>>
> En met openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) kun je ze ook mooi zichtbaar maken:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png
>
>> Joost Schouppe ran a test on bakeries in Antwerp. Only 37 of the 294 
>> bakeries are mapped.
>>
>> So, when you love to map POIs, you'll still have plenty of work :-)
>>
> openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) is a great tool to show them all:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png
>
> Marc.
Lovely, welcome info forwarding, Marc.  And congratulations !!!

Impressive but ouch, Marc #2, they use overpass, and extensively.
If everybody were using their page much, overpass would soon be on their
knees.

I think that how to use POIs should be thought out before making them.
It's great how a GPS uses a selection offline and how a Web display
could do the same.
But they use predetermined kinds of POIs that they selected as data they
store locally.
May I recall another approach that I presented as a way for OSM.be to
make money.
For each "customer" or usage, a POI list is built that contains the IDs
of the OSM elements + icon URL.
The server whose task is to display the map + POIs can fetch the list
from any URL.
http://server  http://list
node/way/area ID icon_URL
...
For speed and to spare the sources, it can build a cache.

Cheers

André.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Marc Zoutendijk]

> Op 24 jul. 2015, om 07:16 heeft Marc Gemis  het 
> volgende geschreven:
> 
> 
> Joost Schouppe heeft eventjes een vergelijking gemaakt voor Antwerpen: 
> slechts 37 van de 294 bakkers zouden gemapped zijn.
> 
> Dus als POIs je ding zijn, dan mag je gerust zijn, er is nog werk genoeg :-)
> 
> 

En met openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) kun je ze ook mooi zichtbaar maken:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png

> 
> Joost Schouppe ran a test on bakeries in Antwerp. Only 37 of the 294 bakeries 
> are mapped.
> 
> So, when you love to map POIs, you'll still have plenty of work :-)
> 

openpoimap (http://openpoimap.org) is a great tool to show them all:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17226226/OSM/bakkersantwerpen.png

Marc.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[André Pirard]

On 2014-02-15 11:26, Johan C wrote :
> Hi André
>
> it would be interesting to know from these providers a) why they are
> not interested in cooperating with OSM and b) what could be done to
> change that
>
> Cheers, Johan
>
The best idea is to ask them and we would like to know the answer too.
One possibility is that they don't know what OSM is.
That's true for 99.9% of the persons.
Please note in the Click2map 's answer that
they consider OSM as tiles, not as a database and not as a database they
can change.
And that's why cooperating with those who can spread the idea is
interesting.
Another possibility is reliability and security. Their data could be
mangled by anyone. If real vandalism hasn't occurred in OSM yet, it's
because of the 99.9%.

Cheers,

André.


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