Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
> From: James Ewen [mailto:ve6...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 9:22 PM > To: talk-ca > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring > > On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Paul Norman wrote: > > I don't know how it works in the rest of the country, but in Alberta, > once an area declares itself a City, it gets separated from the county > it may have been a part of as far as taxes and other funding are > concerned. The urban node of Sherwood Park was for the longest time the > world's largest hamlet. With a population of 65,000 it could easily > become Alberta's seventh largest city, but to declare itself a city, it > would need to draw an administrative boundary. If that boundary included > the refineries east of Edmonton, then the rest of Strathcona County > would lose a huge tax base, and be left with less money for > administration. If the administrative boundary were drawn to just > include the urban area, then Sherwood Park would be left with a large > residential population used to the service levels available with a much > smaller tax base to support them. Therefore the solution is to create > the Specialized Municipality of Strathcona County that includes nine > hamlets. > > So, while admin level=6 may be of little importance to you, there are a > bunch of politicians, and other municipal government administrators that > would argue otherwise. But your example doesn't involve any of the BC admin_level=6 boundaries I was talking about. Politically, culturally and economically they're viewed as less important than cities here. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:14 PM, Paul Norman wrote: >> I see that Canada is pretty good at the admin2 (Country) level, and the >> admin4 level (Regions) except for a few islands in the Hudson and James >> Bay areas. It looks like BC has had the admin6 (Departments) level >> imported > > Yes - although they're honestly not particularly valuable data. The > admin_level=6 entities are of much less practical importance than the > admin_level=8 cities. I guess that all depends upon your perspective... Using the same logic, residential roads are of more importance because they are in the city, as opposed to the primary highways and motorways that connect the cities as they are out in the boonies. County boundaries identify administrative edge of an area just as the city boundaries do. The eastern boundary of the City of Edmonton is also the western boundary of the Specialized Municipality of Strathcona County. Try moving that boundary to the east by a couple miles and you'll see a lot of excrement hitting the fan! I don't know how it works in the rest of the country, but in Alberta, once an area declares itself a City, it gets separated from the county it may have been a part of as far as taxes and other funding are concerned. The urban node of Sherwood Park was for the longest time the world's largest hamlet. With a population of 65,000 it could easily become Alberta's seventh largest city, but to declare itself a city, it would need to draw an administrative boundary. If that boundary included the refineries east of Edmonton, then the rest of Strathcona County would lose a huge tax base, and be left with less money for administration. If the administrative boundary were drawn to just include the urban area, then Sherwood Park would be left with a large residential population used to the service levels available with a much smaller tax base to support them. Therefore the solution is to create the Specialized Municipality of Strathcona County that includes nine hamlets. So, while admin level=6 may be of little importance to you, there are a bunch of politicians, and other municipal government administrators that would argue otherwise. -- James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Pierre Béland wrote: > Geobase provides various administrative boundaries. See > http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/admin/index.html > > The municipal boundaries (admin_level=8) are provided by each province. > Admin_level 6 is also available for Ontario. The Shape files have to be > converted to OSM. Are there instructions on how to do that? > Looking at the history of your Lamont county way, I see that is also part of > Strathcona county relation. This polygon is also broken. See > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/50382 > A good mess! Many new mappers don't know about relations and don't care when > asked if they want to delete even if the way is part of a relation. That's the actual county definition that I was talking about... I only found part of the way, and not the whole relation. I still don't know enough about relations and the rest to be able to get things straightened around properly. -- James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
> From: James Ewen [mailto:ve6...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 5:22 PM > To: talk-ca > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring > > I see that Canada is pretty good at the admin2 (Country) level, and the > admin4 level (Regions) except for a few islands in the Hudson and James > Bay areas. It looks like BC has had the admin6 (Departments) level > imported Yes - although they're honestly not particularly valuable data. The admin_level=6 entities are of much less practical importance than the admin_level=8 cities. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
James, I was talking last week about municipal boundaries for Quebec province. Geobase provides various administrative boundaries. See http://www.geobase.ca/geobase/en/data/admin/index.html The municipal boundaries (admin_level=8) are provided by each province. Admin_level 6 is also available for Ontario. The Shape files have to be converted to OSM. The aboriginal land territories are in a separate file. I have not looked at other limits. Some provinces may provide limits. I contacted province of Québec Open Data site with no success so far. Boundary limits are the bone of OSM. They are essential but new mappers may often break the polygons. Experienced mappes should monitor and contact less experienced people to teach them very diplomatically when they break essential information. To this regard, the Watch tool helps me to monitor this information by receiving an email every time limits are modified. This morning I received an alert, checked rapidly and saw that a mapper from Maine modified a boundary limit to connect a county from Maine to the Canada / US border. Having an early alert, if there is any problem we can simpy revert before other modifications are made to the OSM database. It is also good to save a copy of the osm file of the administrative limits. This way it is easy to revert if you have any problem with undelete or revert tools. Looking at the history of your Lamont county way, I see that is also part of Strathcona county relation. This polygon is also broken. See http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/50382 A good mess! Many new mappers don't know about relations and don't care when asked if they want to delete even if the way is part of a relation. There is a tool that shows all the ways with boundary limits, even if they are not part of a relation. I have not checked, but it might be Inspector http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/ Pierre > > De : James Ewen >À : talk-ca >Envoyé le : Lundi 29 octobre 2012 20h22 >Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring > >2012/10/29 Pierre Béland : > >> Since OSM is a collaborative project, experienced contributors who monitor >> changes to OSM need monitoring tools. There are many like KeepRight, >> Inspector or http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/. > >> Contributors may follow edits such as hiking trails or bike lanes, or items >> such as main roads and administrative boundaries, wich are essential to >> tools such as Nominatim or Road travel. > >This piqued my interest, especially the layers.openstreetmap.fr link. > >Political, geopolitical, territorial, and administrative boundaries >have always been of interest to me in the OSM project. Many years ago >I attempted to trace out the boundary of the county in which I live. I >was at the time trying to figure out how to create a polygon that >shared boundaries with neighboring areas, or road centerlines, etc... >I had one heck of a time trying to get it in there, but I think I >finally succeeded. But then people would come along and wipe out a >segment or two and the county outline was gone. I have given up >chasing after trying to fix the boundary. > >Here's part of it that still exists since it is in a rural area where >no one pokes and prods... > >http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23502499 > >I see that Canada is pretty good at the admin2 (Country) level, and >the admin4 level (Regions) except for a few islands in the Hudson and >James Bay areas. It looks like BC has had the admin6 (Departments) >level imported, but the rest of Canada is blank except for a small >section in north central Manitoba. Is this information available in >the freely available datasets out there? I'd like to get the counties, >municipal districts, improvement districts, special areas, specialized >municipalities, and cities of Alberta imported, I just need to figure >out where to find them. > >There are also election boundary layers in OSM. There are a number of >them available. Is there a list of which would be Federal, Provincial, >and Municipal layers? What about boundaries for other things? How >would they get tagged? Of interest to me is the Environment Canada >weather alerting boundaries. It would be nice to be able to include >those boundaries in the OSM dataset. Can you create custom admin >levels? > >-- >James >VE6SRV > >___ >Talk-ca mailing list >Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > >___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
2012/10/29 Pierre Béland : > Since OSM is a collaborative project, experienced contributors who monitor > changes to OSM need monitoring tools. There are many like KeepRight, > Inspector or http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/. > Contributors may follow edits such as hiking trails or bike lanes, or items > such as main roads and administrative boundaries, wich are essential to > tools such as Nominatim or Road travel. This piqued my interest, especially the layers.openstreetmap.fr link. Political, geopolitical, territorial, and administrative boundaries have always been of interest to me in the OSM project. Many years ago I attempted to trace out the boundary of the county in which I live. I was at the time trying to figure out how to create a polygon that shared boundaries with neighboring areas, or road centerlines, etc... I had one heck of a time trying to get it in there, but I think I finally succeeded. But then people would come along and wipe out a segment or two and the county outline was gone. I have given up chasing after trying to fix the boundary. Here's part of it that still exists since it is in a rural area where no one pokes and prods... http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23502499 I see that Canada is pretty good at the admin2 (Country) level, and the admin4 level (Regions) except for a few islands in the Hudson and James Bay areas. It looks like BC has had the admin6 (Departments) level imported, but the rest of Canada is blank except for a small section in north central Manitoba. Is this information available in the freely available datasets out there? I'd like to get the counties, municipal districts, improvement districts, special areas, specialized municipalities, and cities of Alberta imported, I just need to figure out where to find them. There are also election boundary layers in OSM. There are a number of them available. Is there a list of which would be Federal, Provincial, and Municipal layers? What about boundaries for other things? How would they get tagged? Of interest to me is the Environment Canada weather alerting boundaries. It would be nice to be able to include those boundaries in the OSM dataset. Can you create custom admin levels? -- James VE6SRV ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Suivi OSM / OSM Monitoring
OSM étant un projet collaboratif, les contributeurs expérimentés qui assurent le suivi des modifications OSM ont besoin d'outils de suivi. Il en existe déja plusieurs tels que Keepright, Inspector ou http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/. Un contributeur français a produit récemment un nouvel outil d'alerte très intéressant. Il est facile d'y définir une zone géographique à surveiller et un ensemble de conditions particulières. voir http://osm102.openstreetmap.fr/~zorglub/watch/ Les contributeurs peuvent suivre les modifications de sentiers de randonnée ou de pistes cyclables, ou encore des éléments tels que routes principales et limites administratives, ceux-ci étant essentiels au fonctionnement de Nominatim ou des outils d'itinéraire. J'ai ajouté une tâche assurant le suivi des nouveaux contributeurs du Québec. Je fais également le suivi des limites administratives et des zones cotières du Québec. Je vous invitent à le découvrir. Pierre Since OSM is a collaborative project, experienced contributors who monitor changes to OSM need monitoring tools. There are many like KeepRight, Inspector or http://layers.openstreetmap.fr/. A French contributor recently produced a very interesting Alert tool where it is easy to define a geographic area to monitor and a set of conditions. see http://osm102.openstreetmap.fr/ foo~/watch/ Contributors may follow edits such as hiking trails or bike lanes, or items such as main roads and administrative boundaries, wich are essential to tools such as Nominatim or Road travel. I added a task keeping track of new contributors in Quebec. I also follow administrative boundaries and coastal areasof Quebec. I invite you to discover it. Pierre ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
