Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions

2017-03-27 Thread Pierre Béland 
Bonjour Martin,
La requête ci-dessous permet de voir les relations type=restriction pour le sud 
du Québec et l'est de l'Ontario (ie. Ottawa, 
Cornwall).http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/nOZ

Pour indiquer les restrictions aux intersections, le nombre de relations 
type=restriction a explosé depuis 2015  407 en janvier 2015  864 en janvier 2016
6,167 en janvier 2017
et  12,178 actuellement (11,106 créés par contributeurs telenav). 

Toronto et sud-ouest de l'Ontario : 7,589 relations 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/nPx


Vancouver et région : 9,060
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/nPy


Il semble que l'Équipe Telenav a utilisé les régions de Vancouver et Montréal 
comme projets pilotes puisque je vois beaucoup moins de relations pour la 
région de Toronto et sud-ouest de l'Ontario.
Je vois des intersections avec des bretelles pour tourner à droite, où les 
chemins ont été coupés en de multiples segments et des relations ajoutées pour 
les restrictions de tourner. Étant donné que beaucoup de contributeurs ne 
maitrisent pas les relations, il faut se demander s'il n'y a pas des modèles 
plus simples.  Il faut s'attendre à ce que beaucoup de ces relations soient 
effacées.

Même à la sortie des bretelles au intersections, je vois des interdit de 
tourner à gauche.
Exemple d'intersection 
interdiction de tourner à gauche http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/25336298
On peut simplement ajouter sur le chemin ? turn=right

interdiction de tourner à droite http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/183580135
Y-a-t-il eu des discussions sur d'autres listes sur ce sujet, sur les 
différentes façons d'indiquer les restrictions de tourner? Ne serait-il pas 
possible d'ajouter plutôt sur le chemin des clés turn, turn:forward, 
turn:backward ?
  
Pierre 


  De : "m...@rtijn.org" 
 À : talk-ca  
 Envoyé le : lundi 27 mars 2017 12h09
 Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions
   
Hi all, 

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary. 

First off, our mapping team’s only objective is to improve the map for us and 
for everyone. In doing this we always respect the work of local mappers, and 
follow community conventions. None of our edits are automated. There is a 
person using JOSM behind every changeset, so if you observe something untoward, 
please comment on the changeset so we can learn, discuss or undo if necessary.

Some of our mapping team members are on this list and they can (and will) 
explain a bit more about how (and why) we add turn restrictions.

I make a point to announce any new mapping projects we start to the local 
mailing lists (like I did when I started this thread). If there is anything we 
can do to be more open about our mapping projects I would be eager to discuss 
with you.

Again, if you have specific concerns about edits any of our team members make 
in your local area, please! raise them in the changeset comments. It’s the 
single most effective way for us to learn how to to do better. Members of our 
mapping team are always identifiable by their usernames ending in _telenav.

Martijn

> On Mar 26, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew:
> 
>> … I had already removed some of the
>> right turn restrictions, but I can add them back in
> 
> Are the restrictions even necessary? If there are turn lanes present,
> one should use them. I can see, however, that routing software might
> send vehicles through the traffic lights if the turn lane were a longer
> route. I wonder if Telenav are tagging to work around their routing
> algorithms?
> 
>> There's still the matter of armchair mapping wiping out on-the-ground
>> mapping.
> 
> Yes, this is troubling to me too. Have you left comments on the
> changesets? Telenav's actions need to be brought out into the open.
> 
> I'm really not looking forward to seeing what all this algorithmic
> mapping's going to do with Canada's logging roads ...
> 
> Stewart
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


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Re: [Talk-ca] Telenav mapping turn restrictions

2017-03-27 Thread m 
Hi all, 

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary. 

First off, our mapping team’s only objective is to improve the map for us and 
for everyone. In doing this we always respect the work of local mappers, and 
follow community conventions. None of our edits are automated. There is a 
person using JOSM behind every changeset, so if you observe something untoward, 
please comment on the changeset so we can learn, discuss or undo if necessary.

Some of our mapping team members are on this list and they can (and will) 
explain a bit more about how (and why) we add turn restrictions.

I make a point to announce any new mapping projects we start to the local 
mailing lists (like I did when I started this thread). If there is anything we 
can do to be more open about our mapping projects I would be eager to discuss 
with you.

Again, if you have specific concerns about edits any of our team members make 
in your local area, please! raise them in the changeset comments. It’s the 
single most effective way for us to learn how to to do better. Members of our 
mapping team are always identifiable by their usernames ending in _telenav.

Martijn

> On Mar 26, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andrew:
> 
>> … I had already removed some of the
>> right turn restrictions, but I can add them back in
> 
> Are the restrictions even necessary? If there are turn lanes present,
> one should use them. I can see, however, that routing software might
> send vehicles through the traffic lights if the turn lane were a longer
> route. I wonder if Telenav are tagging to work around their routing
> algorithms?
> 
>> There's still the matter of armchair mapping wiping out on-the-ground
>> mapping.
> 
> Yes, this is troubling to me too. Have you left comments on the
> changesets? Telenav's actions need to be brought out into the open.
> 
> I'm really not looking forward to seeing what all this algorithmic
> mapping's going to do with Canada's logging roads ...
> 
> Stewart
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


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