Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

[Mojgan Jadidi]

Hi again,

Please accept again my apology!

So I want make it in right way, what we should do, some of you see our data
and did some queries too. If you accept to proceed next step (asking pnorman
to revert back the data) will allow me to do visual inspection (once again
as final verification) in whole region as soon as possible for
any conflict on data server. I am ready to answer any questions regarding
to procedure, data quality, and any geospatial related issues in bulk
import.

Please feel free to send me your feedback!

Thanks
Mojgan

*Mojgan Jadidi, Ph.D.*

*Intern, Applied Research and Corporate Monitoring,*

*Metrolinx  |  97 Front Street West, Toronto, ON, M5J 1E6 | T: 416-202-5844
<416-202-5844>*


*Postdoctoral Research Fellow*
*GeoICT Lab | York University | 4700 Keele St, Toronto, ON, **M3J 1P3*

ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/

On 2 February 2016 at 10:54, Mojgan Jadidi <mojgan.jad...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Paul,
> That was totally my mistake to not doing in the way that you explained,
> but I am here to fix any problem. I am willing to collaborate as the
> community expect. Indeed my next plan was do an extra visual inspection on
> OSM data server to remove any duplication or conflict. I hope this
> miscommunication issue will be resolved soon, and we can open-up our data
> to the community.
>
> I am struggling to find a solution
> Thanks
>
> Mojgan
>
> *Mojgan Jadidi, Ph.D.*
>
> *Intern, Applied Research and Corporate Monitoring,*
>
> *Metrolinx  |  97 Front Street West, Toronto, ON, M5J 1E6 |
> T: 416-202-5844 <416-202-5844>*
>
>
> *Postdoctoral Research Fellow*
> *GeoICT Lab | York University | 4700 Keele St, Toronto, ON, **M3J 1P3*
>
> ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 10:48, Paul Ramsey <pram...@cleverelephant.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, from the outside looking in I'm not seeing the huge surprise.
>> I'm not a community member, but I saw the initial emails from Mojgan,
>> and he's also talked to folks face-to-face. I didn't see an email
>> about the wiki page, but that could be because I wasn't paying
>> attention. What would a good process look like?
>>
>> x- email: "hi, I'm a government organization and I'd like to engage
>> this way, we want to do this"
>> x- comment/response/refine
>> x- wiki: "here is exactly what we plan to do and how we are going to do
>> it"
>> - email: "hi, we now have specific plans and have documented them here
>> in the wiki for your comment"
>> - comment/response/refine
>> - email: "hi, we are going to run a small test import in the following
>> area for your review, please comment"
>> - import: "here's a small amount of data, exactly as we'd do it in a
>> larger area"
>> - email: "hi, we have run a small test import in the following area,
>> please review and comment"
>> - comment/response/refine
>> - email: "hi, we are about to run our main import in the following
>> area, please light your hair on fair if you still have a problem with
>> this"
>> - import: "boom, there it is"
>>
>> I did see the first three communications for sure, and maybe missed
>> one on the wiki. Probably for a big import running a test import first
>> would be a generally wise approach for getting feedback (similar to
>> publishing a github branch).
>>
>> Triplinx has definitely been approaching this in very good faith,
>> shame to see them get reverted for failing to follow a process that
>> doesn't seem to be documented. They certainly met the "communicated"
>> threshold, just maybe not enough or in the right ways for some folks?
>>
>> P.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Begin Daniel <jfd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Initial misunderstandings, emails round trips with the community…
>> standard
>> > communication process!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I do not know how others a seeing it, but reading about the process you
>> use,
>> > I do not see anything like a wild bulk import. At least, it is very
>> similar
>> > to the process I used when importing Canvec datasets.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Daniel
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Mojgan Jadidi [mailto:mojgan.jad...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: February-02-16 09:33
>> > To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > Pl

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

[Mojgan Jadidi]

Hi all,
Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding, I thought our presence
for last OSM meeting and flowing emails in Talk-ca and with John were part
of communication and discussion, we launched our wikipage two weeks ago,
and we did not receive any feedback, so we thought to start import via
JOSM.

as we expalined in our wikipage, we created the algorithm to detect the
missing information, and then we check the quality of this information on
JOSM on the top of OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network
and some local municpal open data. the data is created initially through
StatCan, however, we noticed the low quality of StatCan road segment
geometry, so we deal with this issue by using complement dataset such as
OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network and some local
municpal open data. all created nodes and ways are carefully inspected
visually using above dataset for more that 6 weeks.

Our final verification will be on the OSM server (on-line) to avoid or
detect any issues. Our aim is having high quality address information in
OSM for sake of community. we were very prudent from the first step to have
a high quality source of information.

I hope that the community will accept our contribution and enjoy to use the
data.

Best regards,

Mojgan


Mojgan (Amaneh) Jadidi, Ph.D.
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
GeoICT Lab
York University
Toronto

ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/

On 2 February 2016 at 07:00,  wrote:

> Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
>2. Re: Triplinx import (john whelan)
>3. Re: Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:36:01 -0500
> From: Stewart Russell 
> To: talk-ca 
> Subject: [Talk-ca] Triplinx import
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

[Begin Daniel]

Initial misunderstandings, emails round trips with the community… standard 
communication process!

I do not know how others a seeing it, but reading about the process you use, I 
do not see anything like a wild bulk import. At least, it is very similar to 
the process I used when importing Canvec datasets.

Daniel

From: Mojgan Jadidi [mailto:mojgan.jad...@gmail.com]
Sent: February-02-16 09:33
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

Hi all,
Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding, I thought our presence for 
last OSM meeting and flowing emails in Talk-ca and with John were part of 
communication and discussion, we launched our wikipage two weeks ago, and we 
did not receive any feedback, so we thought to start import via JOSM.

as we expalined in our wikipage, we created the algorithm to detect the missing 
information, and then we check the quality of this information on JOSM on the 
top of OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network and some local 
municpal open data. the data is created initially through StatCan, however, we 
noticed the low quality of StatCan road segment geometry, so we deal with this 
issue by using complement dataset such as OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, 
GeoBase Road network and some local municpal open data. all created nodes and 
ways are carefully inspected visually using above dataset for more that 6 weeks.

Our final verification will be on the OSM server (on-line) to avoid or detect 
any issues. Our aim is having high quality address information in OSM for sake 
of community. we were very prudent from the first step to have a high quality 
source of information.

I hope that the community will accept our contribution and enjoy to use the 
data.

Best regards,

Mojgan


Mojgan (Amaneh) Jadidi, Ph.D.
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
GeoICT Lab
York University
Toronto

ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/<http://ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/>

On 2 February 2016 at 07:00, 
<talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org>> 
wrote:
Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to

talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org>

You can reach the person managing the list at
talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org>

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
   2. Re: Triplinx import (john whelan)
   3. Re: Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:36:01 -0500
From: Stewart Russell <scr...@gmail.com<mailto:scr...@gmail.com>>
To: talk-ca <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-ca] Triplinx import
Message-ID:

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

[Paul Ramsey]

Yeah, from the outside looking in I'm not seeing the huge surprise.
I'm not a community member, but I saw the initial emails from Mojgan,
and he's also talked to folks face-to-face. I didn't see an email
about the wiki page, but that could be because I wasn't paying
attention. What would a good process look like?

x- email: "hi, I'm a government organization and I'd like to engage
this way, we want to do this"
x- comment/response/refine
x- wiki: "here is exactly what we plan to do and how we are going to do it"
- email: "hi, we now have specific plans and have documented them here
in the wiki for your comment"
- comment/response/refine
- email: "hi, we are going to run a small test import in the following
area for your review, please comment"
- import: "here's a small amount of data, exactly as we'd do it in a
larger area"
- email: "hi, we have run a small test import in the following area,
please review and comment"
- comment/response/refine
- email: "hi, we are about to run our main import in the following
area, please light your hair on fair if you still have a problem with
this"
- import: "boom, there it is"

I did see the first three communications for sure, and maybe missed
one on the wiki. Probably for a big import running a test import first
would be a generally wise approach for getting feedback (similar to
publishing a github branch).

Triplinx has definitely been approaching this in very good faith,
shame to see them get reverted for failing to follow a process that
doesn't seem to be documented. They certainly met the "communicated"
threshold, just maybe not enough or in the right ways for some folks?

P.


On Tue, Feb 2, 2016 at 6:51 AM, Begin Daniel <jfd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Initial misunderstandings, emails round trips with the community… standard
> communication process!
>
>
>
> I do not know how others a seeing it, but reading about the process you use,
> I do not see anything like a wild bulk import. At least, it is very similar
> to the process I used when importing Canvec datasets.
>
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
> From: Mojgan Jadidi [mailto:mojgan.jad...@gmail.com]
> Sent: February-02-16 09:33
> To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1
>
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding, I thought our presence
> for last OSM meeting and flowing emails in Talk-ca and with John were part
> of communication and discussion, we launched our wikipage two weeks ago, and
> we did not receive any feedback, so we thought to start import via JOSM.
>
>
>
> as we expalined in our wikipage, we created the algorithm to detect the
> missing information, and then we check the quality of this information on
> JOSM on the top of OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network
> and some local municpal open data. the data is created initially through
> StatCan, however, we noticed the low quality of StatCan road segment
> geometry, so we deal with this issue by using complement dataset such as
> OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network and some local
> municpal open data. all created nodes and ways are carefully inspected
> visually using above dataset for more that 6 weeks.
>
>
>
> Our final verification will be on the OSM server (on-line) to avoid or
> detect any issues. Our aim is having high quality address information in OSM
> for sake of community. we were very prudent from the first step to have a
> high quality source of information.
>
>
>
> I hope that the community will accept our contribution and enjoy to use the
> data.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Mojgan
>
>
>
>
> Mojgan (Amaneh) Jadidi, Ph.D.
>
> Postdoctoral Research Fellow
>
> GeoICT Lab
>
> York University
>
> Toronto
>
>
>
> ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/
>
>
>
> On 2 February 2016 at 07:00, <talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
> talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
>2. Re: Triplinx import (john whelan)
>3. Re: Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:36:01 -0500
> From: Stewart Russell <scr...@gmail.com>
> To: talk-ca <talk-ca@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: [Talk-ca] Triplinx import
> Message-ID:
> 

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 96, Issue 1

[Steve Singer]

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016, Mojgan Jadidi wrote:

Mojgan,

We did say at MappyHour last month that OSM was filled with well intentioned 
imports gone bad. Don't feel bad you seem to be well intentioned and many 
others before you have made mistakes in the import process.


I don't think the advice you got at the meeting was to go rush ahead and 
start importing. I think the advice you received was more along the lines of 
"imports are really hard, getting community consensus is even harder", 
"spend some time understanding how the OSM community works first", "use 
dedicated import accounts attached to individuals not an organization"


Some specific feedback I have on the import

1) I think it is critical that you do the data validation and checking 
*before* uploading to OSM.  This is what I thought you had described but I 
must have misunderstood.  The reason why it is better to do the cleanup 
before uploading the data to OSM is because this way no bad data is sitting 
in OSM until someone gets around to cleaning it up.  The community also 
likes this better because we don't have to worry about if you will ever get 
around to cleaning it up


The flow I would recommend is along the lines
1) Person takes a small area of generated address points
2) They download the current OSM data and check for problems
3) They fix any issues and upload the small area they just checked

The changesets on Monday appeared to be uploading everything first.


2) You should publish your generated files for review(or at least a sample). 
In some areas I spot checked last night I saw nodes with no tags and not 
connected to an interpolation way.  This might have been an artifact of a 
in-progress revert, I'm not sure.


I also saw some places where the existing OSM roads and address 
interpolations were a bit offset from the stuff you uploaded and this 
resulted in duplicate address ways (the existing geometry in OSM might not 
be from a rough survey). Manual cleanup would be required.



3) I am not sure if we need the :source tag on each node or if putting it on 
the changeset would be enough.  Earlier imports tended to put metadata on 
each node but I think we have been trying to move away from this.



Steve



Hi all,Please accept my apology for this misunderstanding, I thought our 
presence for last OSM meeting and
flowing emails in Talk-ca and with John were part of communication and 
discussion, we launched our wikipage
two weeks ago, and we did not receive any feedback, so we thought to start 
import via JOSM. 

as we expalined in our wikipage, we created the algorithm to detect the missing 
information, and then we
check the quality of this information on JOSM on the top of OpenStreetMap, Bing 
Areal imagery, GeoBase Road
network and some local municpal open data. the data is created initially 
through StatCan, however, we noticed
the low quality of StatCan road segment geometry, so we deal with this issue by 
using complement dataset such
as OpenStreetMap, Bing Areal imagery, GeoBase Road network and some local 
municpal open data. all created
nodes and ways are carefully inspected visually using above dataset for more 
that 6 weeks. 

Our final verification will be on the OSM server (on-line) to avoid or detect 
any issues. Our aim is having
high quality address information in OSM for sake of community. we were very 
prudent from the first step to
have a high quality source of information. 

I hope that the community will accept our contribution and enjoy to use the 
data.

Best regards,

Mojgan  
  

Mojgan (Amaneh) Jadidi, Ph.D.
Postdoctoral Research Fellow
GeoICT Lab
York University
Toronto

ca.linkedin.com/pub/mojgan-amaneh-jadidi/10/825/969/

On 2 February 2016 at 07:00,  wrote:
  Send Talk-ca mailing list submissions to
          talk-ca@openstreetmap.org

  To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
          https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
  or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
          talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org

  You can reach the person managing the list at
          talk-ca-ow...@openstreetmap.org

  When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
  than "Re: Contents of Talk-ca digest..."


  Today's Topics:

     1. Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)
     2. Re: Triplinx import (john whelan)
     3. Re: Triplinx import (Stewart Russell)


  --

  Message: 1
  Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2016 18:36:01 -0500
  From: Stewart Russell 
  To: talk-ca 
  Subject: [Talk-ca] Triplinx import
  Message-ID: