Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: hi All, It looks like the City of Toronto just joined in the cool-club :-) Thanks to user:Aude who looks to be a wikipedian... maybe could fix my ramblings? :-)... lol ... maybe not.. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Aude Great, so I wasted the last several years mapping Toronto :) (I am exaggerating here, because there is a huge amount of data which simply isn't available in these datasets, and must be added manually. For example, the location of shops and other businesses.) Looks like there is a huge amount of data here. Road centerlines, addresses, park boundaries, some recreational trails, rivers, churches and a few other things are all in shapefile format and can be imported easily. The challenging part will be combining this data with data that was mapped by hand or that is from GeoBase. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, the road data does not include grade separations (bridges/tunnels), it represents dual carriageways as a single way, and it does not include one way streets (unless I am missing something). TTC routes and schedules are available, but in a weird undocumented text format (not Google Transit Feed Specification or something standard like that). I have absolutely no idea how we will import this data. Various other data, such as property parcels and aerial imagery (hopefully higher quality than Yahoo) is available through a Web Mapping Service - it suggests that you use ArcGIS Explorer (proprietary software) to view it. I'm not sure if there is any way to view it with free software. Since this is presumably raster data, it will have to wait until later. The CanVec data is junk compared to the City of Toronto data, so I think we'd be best off not importing it at all. Since this is such a complex job, I think that we need to arrange some sort of meetup (either in person or on IRC) to discuss how we will do this import. Andrew MacKinnon ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: hi All, It looks like the City of Toronto just joined in the cool-club :-) Thanks to user:Aude who looks to be a wikipedian... maybe could fix my ramblings? :-)... lol ... maybe not.. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Aude Great, so I wasted the last several years mapping Toronto :) (I am exaggerating here, because there is a huge amount of data which simply isn't available in these datasets, and must be added manually. For example, the location of shops and other businesses.) snip You did a super job :) The CanVec data is junk compared to the City of Toronto data, so I think we'd be best off not importing it at all. maybe 'junk' is not accurate... perhaps just could be better would be better :) ... this is why i have the .osm file available for the local team to decide on what they want to copy into OSM. (BTW, there ARE other features in canvec (total 89 features) that might not in the toronto set. Since this is such a complex job, I think that we need to arrange some sort of meetup (either in person or on IRC) As far as actually converting the data to .osm format, i can do that for you all (relatively easily). .. and i can make these .osm files available... And for the features i cant convert to .osm format, someone else who is skilled in python the PostGISmagic, will be able to make the .osm files available for you all to play with. to discuss how we will do this import. And yes, thats what the team is for, to take a look at the .osm files in JOSM... and see and mark down what features are worthy to copy in, and what aren't... and what method is easist. (postGIS-automatch or manual copying). .. and deciding who wants to work on what. This process is really needs only a few local people, as each of the contributors become the 'care-taker' of the data.. and are responsible for ensuring that whatever data they they copy-in, they are aware of what they are doing. ... so it becomes the local people who discide what they want to copy in. So at my -end, i remove myself from the 'import' because all i am doing is making a carbon copy of the source data. .. a direct tag match. (literally download from NRCan / convert / Zip / upload to NRCan) Where if people see errors in this 'direct-match' that was done and think more/less tags need to be added/removed, then thats a change for the conversion script happens, and the tiles get re-converted. (would be on a 6 month basis, for sanity) And regarding the import script, it becomes a choice of 'eitlhor ocal-bulk-import' or manual-bulk-import. .. but the actual importing is done locally. ... or even if you want to skip the converted .osm files and use the source files, and make your own postGIS conversion. That's why the source files are included in the .zip So ya, im working on CONVERTIING the various area of Canada data, and making these files available. ... then someone else (or maybe me, if knowone wants to) can open up the files and choose what to upload, and then upload it. Andrew MacKinnon So i hope this helps, let me know if you want me to convert the data to .osm sooner than later. Cheers, Sam P.S. Havent all the roads already been automatched and imported? I it looks like it would be some 'sliding over', and adding in more attributes where available needed. Geographic boundaries dont ever actually touch things in the phsycal world. (they might just-so-happen to be directly on-top), so it could be moved over 5cm if needed to select it. .. so then we have a 10cm 'neutral zone', with 5cm on eithor side of the road centerline that makes the boundaries? :-) ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Take another look. Parts of the road centreline data are at least years out of date. And the centerline data freely mixes roads with geographic boundaries with rivers, some sharing junctions. That'll be a mess to convert properly. I think the addressing data will be a nice addition to OSM. They haven't released the parcel data yet, but they have it and might release it. The TTC data is for street cars and buses only so far. The centerlines data is up to date - it shows several roads that I know were built recently e.g. the Simcoe Street extension under the train tracks and the renaming of part of Duncan St to Ed Mirvish Way. However, we are probably best off keeping the existing road data (most of it manually added by me from GeoBase NRN), and not attempting to use data from the centerlines shapefile because the city centerlines data shows dual carriageways as one road and does not show grade separations, unlike the GeoBase data. There is no reason that we can't copy missing features from it though. There is quite a lot of raster data in the WMS layer City GeoSpatial Web Service. This includes much of the data in the shapefiles, such as road centerlines, trails (though some minor trails are missing or inaccurate), rivers (with names, many of which are missing in OSM right now), and address data. It also includes parcels, but only in raster format. It might be useful to trace features from here in JOSM. The TTC data is pretty much useless to us because it is in a weird non-documented format. Would the TTC be willing to allow us to copy directly from its website, which includes route data in a much more user-friendly format? Andrew ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:17 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: hi All, It looks like the City of Toronto just joined in the cool-club :-) Thanks to user:Aude who looks to be a wikipedian... maybe could fix my ramblings? :-)... lol ... maybe not.. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Aude Great, so I wasted the last several years mapping Toronto :) (I am exaggerating here, because there is a huge amount of data which simply isn't available in these datasets, and must be added manually. For example, the location of shops and other businesses.) Looks like there is a huge amount of data here. Road centerlines, addresses, park boundaries, some recreational trails, rivers, churches and a few other things are all in shapefile format and can be imported easily. [ ... ] Take another look. Parts of the road centreline data are at least years out of date. And the centerline data freely mixes roads with geographic boundaries with rivers, some sharing junctions. That'll be a mess to convert properly. I think the addressing data will be a nice addition to OSM. They haven't released the parcel data yet, but they have it and might release it. The TTC data is for street cars and buses only so far. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.comwrote: The TTC data is pretty much useless to us because it is in a weird non-documented format. Would the TTC be willing to allow us to copy directly from its website, which includes route data in a much more user-friendly format? Andrew We can take notes for the Vancouver Transit Data, perhaps the folks who created the ttc file maybe to able to collaborate a little. I haven't yet dealt with the TransLink data yet, so i have no idea what the source file is like. If it's simple nodes then attributes of the route is stored there, then it's. ... cool others have been working on it. Thanks Richard Has anyone sent of a message to the City of Toronto? Curious, Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
I just saw on the IRC http://www.opengeodata.org/2009/11/04/open-data-from-toronto/ Looks like we have Mark Kuznicki http://remarkk.com/ to thank for that. Awesome! Cheers, Sam On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.comwrote: The TTC data is pretty much useless to us because it is in a weird non-documented format. Would the TTC be willing to allow us to copy directly from its website, which includes route data in a much more user-friendly format? Andrew We can take notes for the Vancouver Transit Data, perhaps the folks who created the ttc file maybe to able to collaborate a little. I haven't yet dealt with the TransLink data yet, so i have no idea what the source file is like. If it's simple nodes then attributes of the route is stored there, then it's. ... cool others have been working on it. Thanks Richard Has anyone sent of a message to the City of Toronto? Curious, Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
The City of Toronto aerial imagery WMS server URL (for JOSM) is at (remember the last ): http://map.toronto.ca/servlet/com.esri.wms.Esrimap/OrthoImagery?REQUEST=GetMapSERVICE=WMSVERSION=1.1.1LAYERS=Ortho Imagery 50cm 2005STYLES=FORMAT=image/pngBGCOLOR=0xFFTRANSPARENT=TRUESRS=EPSG:4326 It seems that the City of Toronto imagery seems to show up as slightly misaligned in JOSM relative to the Yahoo imagery (which I have been deriving data from), GPS traces, and GeoBase data. Annoying. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 10:05 PM, Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Andrew MacKinnon andrew...@gmail.com wrote: The TTC data is pretty much useless to us because it is in a weird non-documented format. Would the TTC be willing to allow us to copy directly from its website, which includes route data in a much more user-friendly format? Andrew We can take notes for the Vancouver Transit Data, perhaps the folks who created the ttc file maybe to able to collaborate a little. I haven't yet dealt with the TransLink data yet, so i have no idea what the source file is like. If it's simple nodes then attributes of the route is stored there, then it's. ... cool others have been working on it. Thanks Richard Has anyone sent of a message to the City of Toronto? OK, I found a file indicating the meanings of the TTC data format at the datato group, but it's broken. The latitude and longitude of each bus stop are supposed to be there, but they are missing. This means the TTC data is useless until this is fixed. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Toronto Potential Datasource
hi All, It looks like the City of Toronto just joined in the cool-club :-) Thanks to user:Aude who looks to be a wikipedian... maybe could fix my ramblings? :-)... lol ... maybe not.. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Aude http://www.toronto.ca/open/terms.htm#licence So according to this site, it looks like its good. Perhaps someone wants to email a comment to ... indicating our intended use? ... then we got it 'official' :) Introduction These Terms of Use are intended to protect and promote the City of Toronto's commitments to open data and ensure that the recipients of these datasets give back to the community the benefits they derive from these datasets. If you have any questions or comments about these Terms of Use, please feel free to contact us at opend...@toronto.ca. Your Open Licence to the Datasets The City of Toronto (the City) now grants you a world-wide, royalty-free, non-exclusive licence to use, modify, and distribute the datasets in all current and future media and formats for any lawful purpose. You now acknowledge that this licence does not give you a copyright or other proprietary interest in the datasets. If you distribute or provide access to these datasets to any other person, whether in original or modified form, you agree to include a copy of, or this Uniform Resource Locator (URL) for, these Terms of Use and to ensure any such person agrees to, and is bound by, them but without introducing any further restrictions of any kind. I would guess that we include the tag 'attribution= http://www.toronto.ca/open/terms.htm#licence; or maybe attribution:provider=City of Toronto attribution:url= http://www.toronto.ca/open/terms.htm#licence; So anyway, regarding how that will effect canvec, .. basically it wont. The canvec data will be made available as the converted shp files as .zip files in the http://ftp2.cits.rncan.gc.ca/osm/031/m/ directory with looking at the files named 031m11_canvec-to-osm0_9_5_6.zip 031m12_canvec-to-osm0_9_5_6.zip 031m13_canvec-to-osm0_9_5_6.zip 031m14_canvec-to-osm0_9_5_6.zip (the last numbers will change, as we get closer to getting the script out of beta) Hopefully the files will become available in the next few weeks :-) so you can upload whatever you like.. and when ever you like. Updating the canada data import chart would be helpful to the neighbors :) With a quick look at what shp files are available, i'd recommend making a separate rules.txt file for each so an .osm file is created so people can work on it, at a mapping party :) The duplicates you might find are: ... (from a 1st look) http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/address-points/ :some of the geobase roads might have the address: tag in there... (the canvec version does, if available)... not most likey, will NOT be in canvec, ... however the building=yes (which is available as an extra) could possibly overlap here. ... but the Toronto version would more useful. http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/places-of-worship/ Where the canvec file might have lots of nodes for it, this toroto file might go into more detail by including Address.. denomination, ... and lots more I have it copied here... if you want to edit .. a simple insert column to list what the associated OSM tag would be is easist IMO http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am70fsptsPF2dHQwTF9vYlRlS0JmbTVOMXVwY2UyT3chl=en or manually entered in the wiki, if you like :-) (i didn't make a GoogleDocs view of the others, but can if you like) http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/centreline/ :roads Where the geobaseRoads accounted for the roads (probably identical, or a slight movement may be needed) :Walkways, probably only a few from the 'trails' canvec file, (but probably not, as these would refer to 'paved' walkways. :rivers... most of them will be able from canvec, with the river name... however, this dataset might include more rivers. ... so i would recommend inserting the canvec rivers BEFORE this, but it's your call. :railways, (most likely, it's all included in canvec)... and alot probably done already :Boundaries. .. these are NOT included in canvec, so it would be good to add, if not done already. http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/web-map-services/ That's cool :-) The geobase data has WMS, but probably not as good as here. Probably good for the openaerialmap project. http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/neighbourhoods/ Definatly not in canvec and super to have :) http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/wards/ Cool to have :-) but not sure if its needed http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/solid-waste-management-districts/ Also cool to have, but might make the map more complicated. Maybe make a .osm file available for it? ... so then people can use it as reference if they want to make their own map. http://www.toronto.ca/open/datasets/foodbanks/ Might be good to have too. As it looks like each is a node and separated by organization. Anyway, i wont stick my fingers in that pie,
