Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Hi Yves, FWIW, I was able to browse the site, in order to see what is available and at what cost, with Ubuntu / Firefox. Maybe you have some extensions (like NoScript) blocking something. For one, I had to allow JS to be executed, but that's all. Regarding the infrastructure, there are already several instances where it is provided by the OSM community. The current efforts to map Haiti are located outside of OSM (on a site from Schuyler Erle), but there are also several sites serving data for different purposes within OSM. A good example are the Dutch sites (like tiles.openstreetmap.nl, mijndev.openstreetmap.nl, etc.), and a site like http://ooc.openstreetmap.org/ offering tiles of out-of-copyright data covering England and Wales. It has already been mentioned several times, but it would be the best if we would be able to set something up ourselves. This would also be very beneficial for the Canvec/Geobase and other imports taking place. But then the question arises: who can provide a server, and who can administer it? (Unfortunately my experience is limited to administrating my own PCs, but a more professional web server is beyond my league.) This goes beyond offering storage space, although that remains valuable. For on, I would love to put my TopOSM version of Canada there, which I showed in Sherbrooke last month. On such a site we could show how certain data will look like when imported, for example the administrative boundaries Nicolas pointed out. Frank Yves Moisan wrote: The Geoboutique site also has lots of other interesting data, like orthophotos. Too bad they're expensive. $65 per file, and there are thousands of them. However, we wouldn't need that data per se, but if it would only be available to OSM for tracing purposes (like Yahoo), that would already be very much appreciated :) Good point ! I don't know how Yahoo can provide the data to OSM for free for tracing purposes and in other circumstances sell it to private customers. The Québec air photo data may be a different beast inasmuch as IIRC there is one single private provider. One thing I would try to find out is how much money the government of Québec (Geoboutique is the government) makes out of selling the air photo coverage it paid for. The logic is pretty basic here : the government wants to recoup costs. I'll put my toe in water and put forth this hypothesis : Geoboutique doesn't make a whole lot of money selling air photos. There. Please prove me wrong. If they don't get much money from sales (and please let's factor in the cost of the computing infrastructure needed to sell the data), then there may be open ears for sharing data for community purposes. The other thing is I'm not sure there is a strong will from the government to set up an infrastructure to share it's geodata. If there is to be a special agreement between OSM and the government for tracing purposes, there will be a need for such an infrastructure. I just dropped by Geoboutique and I can't get much out of their website on my Ubuntu laptop : Ce site est optimisé pour le fureteur Internet Explorer version 6.. In fact I complained two years ago that Geoboutique (or some other geodata government site) *required* not only IE, but Microsoft's JVM for it to work properly. A year later Firefox users were simply told to use IETab to view the site ... The site says not it is optimized for IE6. Point is : the logic here is proprietary, cost-recouping and IE oriented infrastructure. And it'll probably be like that for as long as politicians want even though data sales are probably nowhere near what they'd need to be to recover costs. Prove me wrong ;-). Yves Frank ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Hi All, The potential for access to Quebec imagery is nice, if the provider and license will permit. The best place for that and similar imagery would be OpenAerialMap.org[1], which poses a problem, because OAM is still rebooting itself. OAM in the first incarnation found that it was flooded with available datasets, and with enthusiastic consumers of the data. This puts a very large burden on the OAM operators in terms of image storage space and bandwidth to provide the data. There is a further burden of processing power required to adapt the imagery from whatever form it is donated to whatever form the consumers wish to have it. These lessons can inform us, even if we limit our interests to a relatively small area, and a limited number of datasets. If you can contribute, or negotiate a hosting agreement for an OAM node on the order of 50TB of tape-backed storage on a very robust connection, please participate in the discussion. Finding the first partners who are willing to share the resource requirements of this massive project is the next big step. [1] http://wiki.openaerialmap.org/Main_Page ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 00:37 -0500, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin wrote: I had started a manual clean up but gave up, I am sure there is a better tool for that! Can someone have a look? Alright, although it wasn't a witch hunt, the guilty man replied to me in private and fixed it :) Problem solved! Pierre-Luc signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Nicolas Gignac gignac...@hotmail.com wrote: Allo, Si vous voulez des données gratuites pour le Québec pour améliorer OSM, voir ici : http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/territoire/portrait/portrait-donnees-mille.jsp If you want free data for the province of Quebec to improve OSM, there is free datasets available here: http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/territoire/portrait/portrait-donnees-mille.jsp Cheers, Nicolas Dear Nicolas, Thank you for the link to the data. The data appears to be available at no cost, but I don't see the license details. Is the data provided as Public Domain or under a license compatible with OSM? From a quick look at that page, it appears to be vectors at an equivalent scale of 1:100. That may not offer us enough detail to include in OSM. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Allo, Si vous voulez des données gratuites pour le Québec pour améliorer OSM, voir ici : http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/territoire/portrait/portrait-donnees-mille.jsp If you want free data for the province of Quebec to improve OSM, there is free datasets available here: http://www.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca/territoire/portrait/portrait-donnees-mille.jsp Cheers, Nicolas 2010/1/15 Pierre-Luc Beaudoin pierre-...@pierlux.com Hi! :) There are some places just south of Montréal that have duplicated data for every ways. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.3085lon=-73.5243zoom=12layers=B000FTF That include Saint-Constant, Delson, down to Saint-Rémi (following the 209). The overpasses of the 15,.30 and 132 are particularly ugly right now. I had started a manual clean up but gave up, I am sure there is a better tool for that! Can someone have a look? Thanks, Pierre-Luc ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Hi, Regarding government contacts: I believe Nicolas has contacts within the government himself, so he might be in the best position to make some inquiries. It would be wonderful if we could do something really useful with it (i.e. importing in OSM). I've looked at the 1:1M data, and it is in E00 format. With some tools (Import71 from ESRI and ogr2ogr) I was able to convert it to SHP, and then I used shp-to-osm.jar to convert it to OSM files. So far I haven't used any rules files, so I got the bare geometry. Maybe I haven't done right in this quick test, but the OSM files don't contain areas, but lines. Actually this is perfect for administrative boundaries. Any administrative areas should be built up by relationships anyways. Regarding the accuracy, it was much better than I would expect because of the scale. If there would be no alternative, this would certainly be acceptable IMHO. One thing though: I couldn't find any names of the areas. The generated DBF files only contain numeric identifiers. During the conversion to SHP (through ArcInfo coverages) I got an error from ogr2ogr that it wasn't able to convert integer lists to SHP. I don't know the data, so I also don't know what data has been dropped. Maybe the identifiers of the area to the left and right sides of each way... The Geoboutique site also has lots of other interesting data, like orthophotos. Too bad they're expensive. $65 per file, and there are thousands of them. However, we wouldn't need that data per se, but if it would only be available to OSM for tracing purposes (like Yahoo), that would already be very much appreciated :) Frank Sam Vekemans wrote: So Quebec (province) has not opened up their dataset yet? Good to know. Maybe after the NRCan data all gets imported, they might change their mind :) Does anyone have contact with the GIS department directly? Sam On 1/15/10, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin pierre-...@pierlux.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 22:18 -0500, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin wrote: We should get in touch with them so we can exchange datasets such as Municipalités régionales de comté, City boundaries, counties and administrative regions (at least). They do have the data (1/20 000) in vector format available for sale for 100$ + conversion rates of 7$ on http://geoboutique.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca . Past that, it's only a question of licences. Pierre-Luc ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Regarding the area names: they are in the E00 files, and also in the generated pat.adf files, so it shouldn't be a problem to match them up with the numeric identifiers. Frank Frank Steggink wrote: Hi, Regarding government contacts: I believe Nicolas has contacts within the government himself, so he might be in the best position to make some inquiries. It would be wonderful if we could do something really useful with it (i.e. importing in OSM). I've looked at the 1:1M data, and it is in E00 format. With some tools (Import71 from ESRI and ogr2ogr) I was able to convert it to SHP, and then I used shp-to-osm.jar to convert it to OSM files. So far I haven't used any rules files, so I got the bare geometry. Maybe I haven't done right in this quick test, but the OSM files don't contain areas, but lines. Actually this is perfect for administrative boundaries. Any administrative areas should be built up by relationships anyways. Regarding the accuracy, it was much better than I would expect because of the scale. If there would be no alternative, this would certainly be acceptable IMHO. One thing though: I couldn't find any names of the areas. The generated DBF files only contain numeric identifiers. During the conversion to SHP (through ArcInfo coverages) I got an error from ogr2ogr that it wasn't able to convert integer lists to SHP. I don't know the data, so I also don't know what data has been dropped. Maybe the identifiers of the area to the left and right sides of each way... The Geoboutique site also has lots of other interesting data, like orthophotos. Too bad they're expensive. $65 per file, and there are thousands of them. However, we wouldn't need that data per se, but if it would only be available to OSM for tracing purposes (like Yahoo), that would already be very much appreciated :) Frank Sam Vekemans wrote: So Quebec (province) has not opened up their dataset yet? Good to know. Maybe after the NRCan data all gets imported, they might change their mind :) Does anyone have contact with the GIS department directly? Sam On 1/15/10, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin pierre-...@pierlux.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 22:18 -0500, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin wrote: We should get in touch with them so we can exchange datasets such as Municipalités régionales de comté, City boundaries, counties and administrative regions (at least). They do have the data (1/20 000) in vector format available for sale for 100$ + conversion rates of 7$ on http://geoboutique.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca . Past that, it's only a question of licences. Pierre-Luc ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Import mess in southern Québec
Sweet! Nothing like a little peer pressure to speed up the process. Across the country there is CERTAINLY some friendly rivelry going on. Current Score: Toronto is in the lead with local detail, followed closely by Montreal. Although Calgary has some great detail Origional material. I think Edmonton is James' area. Would be great to see if WMS is available for easy tracing? Would be The article didnt mention Nanaimo, as that was available before Vancouver. :) Sam On 1/15/10, Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org wrote: Speaking about opening up: the City of Edmonton also is opening up its geodata: http://data.edmonton.ca/ This was posted here: http://mapperz.blogspot.com/2010/01/edmonton-opens-up-city-data.html All the more reason for other cities and provinces in Canada to follow suit :) Frank Sam Vekemans wrote: So Quebec (province) has not opened up their dataset yet? Good to know. Maybe after the NRCan data all gets imported, they might change their mind :) Does anyone have contact with the GIS department directly? Sam On 1/15/10, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin pierre-...@pierlux.com wrote: On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 22:18 -0500, Pierre-Luc Beaudoin wrote: We should get in touch with them so we can exchange datasets such as Municipalités régionales de comté, City boundaries, counties and administrative regions (at least). They do have the data (1/20 000) in vector format available for sale for 100$ + conversion rates of 7$ on http://geoboutique.mrnf.gouv.qc.ca . Past that, it's only a question of licences. Pierre-Luc -- Twitter: @Acrosscanada Blog: http://Acrosscanadatrails.blogspot.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sam.vekemans Skype: samvekemans OpenStreetMap IRC: http://irc.openstreetmap.org @Acrosscanadatrails ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
