Re: [Talk-cz] czech republic: data wrongly marked as ODbL compatible was Re: Hromadné importy & změna licence
Hi, Karel Volný wrote: > what do I remember Pavel saying, and I can refer to the "OSM Inspector a stav > přijetí licence" talk-cz mailinglist thread, the closest thing to "maximising > the damage" is just that he is not going to do someone else's work (he even > *constructively* responded to some emails about what to do next, which is > better than acting like dead, so you really hardly can speak about > "maximising > the damage") He was never asked to do someone else's work (regarding the license change), the work of tracking down the bulk import changesets was done by hanoj... All that was asked of Pavel was to formally agree that the list of changesets contains "clean" data. > so I don't hesitate to call you a liar Yep, I'm terrible liar with links to talk-cz archive... [1] Reaction to Frederik's suggestion regarding the overrides: >> You have four options: >> 1. Ideally, pavel would agree that these changesets come from a free >> source and are not affected by his general rejection of the Contributor >> Terms...[shortened] > > I don't like the license change, nor the new contributor terms and so > I don't want to make license change easy. [2] Older discussion (in Czech, sorry) about license change, where Pavel was asked essentially the same question and translation of the end of his reaction: > Relicensing the import and keeping the original data does not make sense, > sorry. By that I would cause that most of the users would remain on > osm.org and I could work in peace on fosm.org... alone. > Which is not quite what I want. > > So far I have a feeling it would be best not to change the license to OdBL. I really don't know what other interpretation there can be, than "maximising the damage" to OSM, so that more users would get upset and convert to FOSM. Best regards, Petr Morávek aka Xificurk [1] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/2011-December/006966.html [2] http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-cz/2011-July/006635.html PS: I'm sorry for pouring more oil into the flames, but I just had to make my case... Anyone interested in the real facts can go through mailing list archives and find out for himself, but I would like to stop with this here in talk-cz (and legal). So, don't expect me to react any more in this thread, _unless_ Pavel comes with specific claims. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] czech republic: data wrongly marked as ODbL compatible was Re: Hromadné importy & změna licence
Dne So 31. března 2012 18:18:05, Petr Morávek [Xificurk] napsal(a): > I'm sorry, but I'm starting to loose my patience. and after reading what do you refer to I've lost my patience with you: > You've already clearly stated, that you don't like license change and > want to maximize the damage to OSM community, nothing new here. I believe Pavel never said anything about maximising the damage to the _community_ (if ever anything about "maximising the damage") what do I remember Pavel saying, and I can refer to the "OSM Inspector a stav přijetí licence" talk-cz mailinglist thread, the closest thing to "maximising the damage" is just that he is not going to do someone else's work (he even *constructively* responded to some emails about what to do next, which is better than acting like dead, so you really hardly can speak about "maximising the damage") so I don't hesitate to call you a liar with a copy to legal@osmf so that they know how the "discussion" and "cooperation" looks like now you can ostracise me as I've learned already that calling someone a liar is considered unforgivable, while twisting the words that white looks black is okay time to move to FOSM, I guess ... K. ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] czech republic: data wrongly marked as ODbL compatible was Re: Hromadné importy & změna licence
Pavel Machek wrote: > So lets start by saying that I don't like ODbL and I hate CT. > > Now, there's list of imports I did to OSM, with intention of marking > them "OK to switch to CT+ODbL". Sorry, but you may not do that without > my agreement. I believe I own copyright in most of those. > > There are three classes of data I uploaded to osm: > > a) Hand created data, most important paths in the woods. CT+ODbL, is > okay for those. > > b) ODbL compatible - mass imports. I'd be willing to be convinced that > ODbL is okay for those, as long data from a) are kept. CT is > not. Those imports were lot of work, and saying "you have to update > OSM every once in a while to be even able to vote about licensing" is > double-plus impolite. > > c) ODbL incompatible mass imports. Obviously these need to be > removed. I have no power to change this. Pavel, I'm sorry, but I'm starting to loose my patience. It's the same story over and over again. You've already clearly stated, that you don't like license change and want to maximize the damage to OSM community, nothing new here. (The fact that you haven't responded for almost two months, but miraculously woke up a day before the announced license change is just a coincidence, right?) If you have any specific objections to the list of changesets that were marked ODbL/CT OK, please share with us. But the repeated vague (and completely irrelevant) statements about ODbL incompatible imports, handcrafted data etc. are getting really really old. For God's sake, I've already told you several times: WE DON'T CARE ABOUT THOSE! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPECIFIC SET OF CHANGESETS WITH BULK IMPORTS OF ODBL/CT COMPATIBLE DATA. I really don't know how to make this more clear. There is a list of your changesets that we want to keep after the license change: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_History_Service/Changeset_Lists#Pavel_imports_in_Czech_Republic If you don't agree with this, _please_, state the number of the changeset and the reason why it can't/shouldn't be kept after the license change. Or be quite. Thank you! Petr Morávek aka Xificurk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
[Talk-cz] czech republic: data wrongly marked as ODbL compatible was Re: Hromadné importy & změna licence
Hi! > právě jsem si všimnul, že nám v OSM Inspectoru [1] republika trochu > "odčervenala". Zdá se, že zatím byly changesety s importy, které dělal > pavel [2], označeny za čisté pouze v rámci OSM Inspectoru. > > LWG chystá v brzké době převod těchto changesetů na jiný účet, kde budou > dále žít jako "licenčně čisté" [3]. > Pavle, pokud máš k tomuto kroku nějaké konkrétní námitky, směřuj je tam > nebo/a LWG; případně, kdybys chtěl připojit k seznamu nějaké další své > changesety, které můžou žít v OSM i pod CT+ODbL, určitě budeme > všichni rádi. So lets start by saying that I don't like ODbL and I hate CT. Now, there's list of imports I did to OSM, with intention of marking them "OK to switch to CT+ODbL". Sorry, but you may not do that without my agreement. I believe I own copyright in most of those. There are three classes of data I uploaded to osm: a) Hand created data, most important paths in the woods. CT+ODbL, is okay for those. b) ODbL compatible - mass imports. I'd be willing to be convinced that ODbL is okay for those, as long data from a) are kept. CT is not. Those imports were lot of work, and saying "you have to update OSM every once in a while to be even able to vote about licensing" is double-plus impolite. c) ODbL incompatible mass imports. Obviously these need to be removed. I have no power to change this. Pavel > [1] http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe > [2] > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_History_Service/Changeset_Lists#Pavel_imports_in_Czech_Republic > [3] > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/rebuild/2012-February/45.html -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] OSM Inspector a stav přijetí licence
Ahoj! > Pavel Machek wrote: > > (tato debata necht je verejna) > pardon, nejak jsem prehledl obsah TO/CC policek :D > > >>> Pak tam bylo jeste > >>> > >>> 5) automaticke pojmenovavani ulic pomoci nameit. > >> > >> Jsou k tomu někde informace? Na wiki nic nevidím. > > > > Melo by to jit najit v praze, nekde v poznamce bude "nameit". > Data se asi dohledají, mně šlo spíše o zdroj, licenci, průběh importu. > > > S CT+ODbL souhlasit nemuzu, uz treba kvuli ty wikipedii. Treba kvuli > > tomu ze jsme zdrojum slibovali konkretni licenci, a s CT uz to nemuzem > > zarucit. > Tomu rozumím a chápu to... Řešení existuje: požádat o převedení > závadných (nebo naopak nezávadných, podle toho co se dohledává snáze) > changesetů na jiný účet a na tom nezávadném odsouhlasit CT+ODbL. Chápu, > že se ti do toho nechce, protože nesouhlasíš se změnou licence a jsi > naštvaný na OSMF, ALE... Proc bych mel delat praci proto, ze se OSMF zblaznila? Detailneji v jinem mailu. A ano, je mozne ze v nektere changesety byly pouhy upload. Nektere ne, a i tech je dost. Pavel -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
Re: [Talk-cz] Názor a návrhy; Was: Critical Mass for license change-over
Ahoj! > Zdravím Pavla a ostatní přispěvatele z Čech, (Sorry ze mi to tak dlouho trvalo). > Nyní můj názor na minimalizaci škod a případného uzamknutí dat > v organizaci, se kterou minimálně někteří nesouhlasí. > > 1) požadovat úpravu CT tak, aby byla zajištěna kontrola komunitou >(viz výše). > > 2) informovat lidi, co sice s použitím svých současných i budoucích příspěvků >pod ODbl souhlasí, ale chtějí zachovat jejich vetší míru >nezávislosti na OSMF, že mohou potvrdit ExtraLicense. >Donutit OSMF, aby bylo slíbeno, že bude tato informace a seznam >souhlasících trvale k dispozici. Zároveň zajistit, aby se alespoň >souhlas s CC-BY-SA u autorů promítl shodným způsobem do databáze >a JOSM jako je zobrazen souhlas s CT. > > 3) s lidmi, kteří ani s těmito podmínkami nebudou souhlasit, >dohodnout vzájemný "obchod". Když se prosazení ODbl nepodaří >zablokovat (dnes již nepravděpodobné), tak je pro vznik větve pod >CC-BY-SA (http://fosm.org/) určitě výhodné, aby mohla přejímat >i budoucí úpravy od co možná největšího množství přispěvatelů >do ODbl OSM databáze. To jim slib ExtraLicenses od přispěvatelů >zajistí. Mohou se tedy dohodnout s přispěvateli OSM, že za určité >množství uživatelů (jejich dat) uvolní jejich stávající data pd ODbl. > > Kdyžtak dejte vědět, kdo by s takovými podmínkami souhlasil. > > Pavle, bylo by pro Tebe přijatelné takovouto dohodu přijmout? Nejak dohodnout se ochoten jsem, ted uvidime jestli legal@ je ochoten diskutovat. Pavel -- (english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek (cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html ___ Talk-cz mailing list Talk-cz@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-cz
