Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] NaPTAN bus stop database import - some moreobservations
And I've just done the same for all 50ish stops in Sutton Coldfield Locality over lunch. I'll drop the results in as soon as the edits done but I am generally concurring with Brians observations. What was most interesting is that about 20% of the stops in the locality have no physical bust stop on the ground. (http://www.itoworld.com/product/naptan/describe_feature?id=LOE0032018) More later Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- westmidlands-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Brian Prangle Sent: 01 April 2009 1:41 PM To: Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org; talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] NaPTAN bus stop database import - some moreobservations Some more views and observations on the NaPTAN data import in Birmingham: 1. It serves as a great QA on OSM data and shows that in the City Centre where we have not been able to get decent GPS traces more accuracy is needed so the potential of obtaining aerial photography is great. 2. Its a great impetus to resurvey streets where earlier work (potentially inaccurate from NPE tracing, older GPS devices, less points collected, inexperience, not realising that roads have a width greater than the rendered line so placing bus stops too close to the road etc.) can be improved. 3. Its also a great impetus to improve practice on surveying bus stops and be much more precise and comprehensive also a stimulus to edit all those old bus stops where we placed them as a node on the way rather than to the side of ways which is our current practice. 4. QA works both ways and our surveys should help to improve NaPTAN data. 5. As an exercise(excuse the pun!) I cycled from Acocks Green to Moseley and back this morning along the No 1 bus route and surveyed 47 bus stops each time standing at the pole(leaning against it you cant get closer than that!) or underneath the plate at a shelter: 4 bus stops coincided within 3-4 m; 17 were good enough coinciding 8-10m. Thats approx 45%. The rest were out by anything up to 90m or were just missing. 6. I think either the pole where there is no shelter or the bus stop plate at a shelter should be what we survey thats where the identification of what we survey is located 7. Where a physical stop on one side of the road doubles up for one on the other side also I think were OK by surveying and tagging the physical one with Andys suggestion of a tag opposite=yes. The NaPTAN untagged node on the other side can be left in place to indicate the logical relationship. 8. I like the idea of tagging where the bus stop is set back in a lay-by from the road which might account for some NaPTAN nodes being some distance from the road 9. For our purposes good enough is probably sufficient rather than precise positional detail Im of the view that as long the bus stop has more or less the right relationships to its surroundings then thats OK. 10. Surprised that there is no data for either the closed Digbeth Coach Station which is being rebuilt or the temporary replacement nearby. I thought we were importing off-street bus stops? Perhaps the NaPTAN data doesnt exist? 11. Cant find any nodes for taxi ranks not imported or doesnt exist for Birmingham or Im not looking hard enough? 12. For the few nodes where Ive estimated the fit between OSM and NaPTAN to be good enough Ive merged the nodes deleting the unverified tag and editing source tag to v=naptan_import;survey 13. Verifying the data is going to be a long, slow process with a lot of resurveying needed. ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] [Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus stop database import - some moreobservations
I've just done a quick render of what was extracted from the West Mids data set - http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~edgemaster/naptan/ 2009/4/1 Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com: Thomas Ok - thanks. I will get a close approximation to this by using current data with the same filtering criterion - and hopefully, if there are further questions about any specific aspects of the data, I will be able to respond to them. Roger -Original Message- From: Thomas Wood [mailto:grand.edgemas...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 April 2009 18:15 To: ro...@slevin.plus.com Cc: Brian Prangle; Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org; talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus stop database import - some moreobservations 2009/4/1 Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com: I would be able to comment more about the missing data and other aspect which you and others draw to the list’s attention if I could have a copy of the NaPTAN data that has been put through the import process – can you (or someone else on the list) either point me to where I can find that specific data set … or can send me a copy of the specific data that has been imported? Currently all data as of 25th March 2009 19:47:46 in the West Midlands region with the a value of Birmingham (case insensitive) in the Town field. I am planning to check to see if we missed any stops, and add any missed based upon a bbox matching. Best wishes Roger From: talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Brian Prangle Sent: 01 April 2009 13:41 To: Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org; talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-transit] NaPTAN bus stop database import - some moreobservations Some more views and observations on the NaPTAN data import in Birmingham: 1. It serves as a great QA on OSM data and shows that in the City Centre where we have not been able to get decent GPS traces more accuracy is needed so the potential of obtaining aerial photography is great. 2. It’s a great impetus to resurvey streets where earlier work (potentially inaccurate from NPE tracing, older GPS devices, less points collected, inexperience, not realising that roads have a width greater than the rendered line so placing bus stops too close to the road etc.) can be improved. 3. It’s also a great impetus to improve practice on surveying bus stops and be much more precise and comprehensive – also a stimulus to edit all those old bus stops where we placed them as a node on the way rather than to the side of ways which is our current practice. 4. QA works both ways and our surveys should help to improve NaPTAN data. 5. As an exercise(excuse the pun!) I cycled from Acocks Green to Moseley and back this morning along the No 1 bus route and surveyed 47 bus stops each time standing at the pole(leaning against it – you can’t get closer than that!) or underneath the plate at a shelter: 4 bus stops coincided within 3-4 m; 17 were “good enough” coinciding 8-10m. That’s approx 45%. The rest were out by anything up to 90m or were just missing. 6. I think either the pole where there is no shelter or the bus stop plate at a shelter should be what we survey – that’s where the identification of what we survey is located 7. Where a physical stop on one side of the road doubles up for one on the other side also – I think we’re OK by surveying and tagging the physical one with Andy’s suggestion of a tag opposite=yes. The NaPTAN untagged node on the other side can be left in place to indicate the logical relationship. 8. I like the idea of tagging where the bus stop is set back in a “lay-by” from the road which might account for some NaPTAN nodes being some distance from the road 9. For our purposes “good enough” is probably sufficient rather than precise positional detail – I’m of the view that as long the bus stop has more or less the right relationships to its surroundings then that’s OK. 10. Surprised that there is no data for either the closed Digbeth Coach Station which is being rebuilt or the temporary replacement nearby. I thought we were importing off-street bus stops? Perhaps the NaPTAN data doesn’t exist? 11. Can’t find any nodes for taxi ranks – not imported or doesn’t exist for Birmingham or I’m not looking hard enough? 12. For the few nodes where I’ve estimated the fit between OSM and NaPTAN to be “good enough” I’ve merged the nodes deleting the unverified tag and editing source tag to v=naptan_import;survey 13. Verifying the data is going to be a long, slow process with a lot of resurveying needed. ___ Talk-transit mailing list talk-tran...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit -- Regards, Thomas Wood (Edgemaster) --
Re: [Talk-GB] New South Downs National Park
Donald Allwright wrote: I've just seen the announcement for the new South Downs National Park, which you can find here: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/conservation/designatedareas/new/southdowns/default.aspx Clicking through this you can download various PDF files with further details, including maps of the boundaries. Quite an exciting development in my view, as the area will be subject to much stricter planning regulations. Unfortunately, all of these maps seem to be contaminated by the dreaded Ordinance Survey copyright licence, which means we're unable to make use of this information. So the question is, how can we map the boundary of this new national park? I suspect in due course various signs will go up on the ground showing where the boundary is, but there's no guarantee that all sections will be clearly signed, and in it will probably still be a few years before even that happens. Donald When the winds of change start blowing, some people look for shelter. Others build windmills. -- Ancient Chinese Proverb. http://donaldallwright.blogspot.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Maybe the Ramsay Committee of 50 years back made some maps that are now out of copyright? Kyle -- Kyle Gordon - 2M1DIQ Web: http://lodge.glasgownet.com Jabber/Email/SIP: k...@lodge.glasgownet.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Reminder: London Pub Meetup Tonight
hi thirsty OSMers, possibly the last bi-weekly london winter pub meetup is tonight at the Freemason's Arms in Covent Garden[1]. it has been suggested that, now the clocks have changed and its lighter in the evening, collection of POIs or addressing data on the way to the pub[2] might be a good way to ease ourselves into the coming season of evening micro mapping parties. either that, or we'll have need a cake. :-) for more details, or to optionally sign up, please see the wiki page[3]. look forward to seeing you there! cheers, matt [1] http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/50/5069/Freemasons_Arms/Covent_Garden [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.51442lon=-0.1224zoom=17layers=B000FTF [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/London/Winter_2008-9_Random_Pub_Meetup ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb