Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally. Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you were thinking of or something in Bath?) The posted incline (at least in the UK) is the maximum gradient. This is also the definition used in OSM, see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:incline Note that they mostly seem to be signed as 20%, 25% & 33% & 40% - so mostly a percentage version of the 1 in 5, 1 in 4, 1 in 3 gradients. Thus you don't tend to get gradients of 22%, 23% etc... So it seems the posted value is often rounded one way or another and certainly cycling up differing hills I've found some seem easier/harder than expected given the signed value. An interesting list of steep roads is here: https://roadcyclinguk.com/sportive/ten-uks-steepest-climbs.html/ Previously this steepest road question has been pondered several times. One interesting thread is here: http://www.intelligentanswers.co.uk/index.php?topic=2962.0 Notionally the average gradient could be worked out fairly easy with reasonable SRTM or better LIDAR data or possibly given a number of GPX files to analyse - although I don't know whether any of these methods would give an accurate enough answer to be of comparable use. Certainly for shorter (i.e. residential rather than long mountain/big hill climbs) road (such as Vale Street) the margin in error of the elevation readings will be considerable compared to the road length such that the calculated gradients could be very unreliable. Some work on trying to auto calculate gradients can be found here: https://github.com/nautoguide/gradient_markers -- Be Seeing You - Rob. If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you. From: Dave F Sent: 11 January 2017 22:04:03 To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England On 11/01/2017 18:18, Jez Nicholson wrote: > Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33% > for England. > > They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but > that is reported as a mere 25% > > I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are > steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'. > Indeed, "criteria" is paramount. Porlock & one in my vicinity is marked as only 25%. I'm pretty sure sections within them are a bit steeper than that. Can anyone clarify that it's an average over the whole rise or the maximum gradient? DaveF. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
On 11/01/2017 18:18, Jez Nicholson wrote: Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33% for England. They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but that is reported as a mere 25% I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'. Indeed, "criteria" is paramount. Porlock & one in my vicinity is marked as only 25%. I'm pretty sure sections within them are a bit steeper than that. Can anyone clarify that it's an average over the whole rise or the maximum gradient? DaveF. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
On 11/01/2017 14:37, SK53 wrote: Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray processed it! ...Or if, indeed, it is in England. DaveF --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] natural=heath
I'm currently reviewing some Corine imported data in Brittany in an area I visited in 2015 with a view to understanding more about how natural=heath has been used. Jerry On 11 January 2017 at 19:27, ael wrote: > On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 11:53:51AM +, SK53 wrote: > > Somehow I have been oblivious to the fact that large numbers of polygons > > tagged natural=heath have been added over the past few months to OSM. > > I have just found the message to the mapper who changed area on Bodmin > Moor to heath: that was almost 1 year ago, so this has been going on for > a long time. > > The mapper replied politely saying that he had used Bing imagery, but > conceded that "moorland" was more accurate. But added that moorland was > not rendered. > > I commented back then on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36605141 > > ael > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] natural=heath
On Mon, Jan 09, 2017 at 11:53:51AM +, SK53 wrote: > Somehow I have been oblivious to the fact that large numbers of polygons > tagged natural=heath have been added over the past few months to OSM. I have just found the message to the mapper who changed area on Bodmin Moor to heath: that was almost 1 year ago, so this has been going on for a long time. The mapper replied politely saying that he had used Bing imagery, but conceded that "moorland" was more accurate. But added that moorland was not rendered. I commented back then on https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36605141 ael ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
Google is telling me Hardknott Pass and Rosedale Chimney Bank at 33% for England. They used to do hill-climb car racing up Porlock Hill in Exmoor but that is reported as a mere 25% I can't help but think that there are some short side-roads that are steeper. They may also have further criteria for the 'World Record'. On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 at 14:37 SK53 wrote: > Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray > processed it! > > > On 11 January 2017 at 14:06, Paul Berry wrote: > > I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40% > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443 > > Regards, > *Paul* > > On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson > wrote: > > Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest > residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a > stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% > http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 > but > was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic. > > Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889 > > "the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised > traffic" > > Anyone going to have a go? > > Regards, > Jez > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Realtions advice needed
Relations to group elements of a street together (associatedStreet is used more widely) are very rarely used by data consumers. Transferring other tags to the relation would therefore effectively remove the road from the sight of renderers and routers. In general it's just better to add your wikidata tag to each underlying way in the relation: it's not that hard to combine similarly tagged objects in post-processing OSM data. Routers and renderers do this all the time. General experience with associatedStreet has been that they can be quite hard to maintain, and are only worthwhile for use in unusual circumstances (i.e., it's better to place notionally redundant address tags than rely on a relation). I see no particular reason that type=street should be any different. I think the list of relation types which work (i.e., are regularly consumed) is: - multipolygon - boundary - route - restriction and no others, not even enforcement, although associatedStreet may be used in Nominatim. Jerry On 11 January 2017 at 15:05, Andy Mabbett wrote: > No, not marriage guidance ;-) > > I've only limited experience of making relations in OSM. Today, I made > this one: > >https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6868921 > > How could it be improved? Should any tags be moved from the individual > parts, to the relation? > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Realtions advice needed
AFAIK, there are no tools that support this relation. So moving an attribute (e.g. name) from the way to the relation will break all data consumers (renderer, Nominatim, etc.) that read names on ways. m. On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 4:05 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote: > No, not marriage guidance ;-) > > I've only limited experience of making relations in OSM. Today, I made this > one: > >https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6868921 > > How could it be improved? Should any tags be moved from the individual > parts, to the relation? > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Realtions advice needed
No, not marriage guidance ;-) I've only limited experience of making relations in OSM. Today, I made this one: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6868921 How could it be improved? Should any tags be moved from the individual parts, to the relation? -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
Now the question is a) is there any Lidar data; and b) has John Murray processed it! On 11 January 2017 at 14:06, Paul Berry wrote: > I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40% > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech > http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443 > > Regards, > *Paul* > > On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson > wrote: > >> Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest >> residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a >> stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% >> http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news >> /chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because >> it is no longer open to traffic. >> >> Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-e >> ngland-38568889 >> >> "the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised >> traffic" >> >> Anyone going to have a go? >> >> Regards, >> Jez >> >> ___ >> Talk-GB mailing list >> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb >> >> > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
I always thought Harlech laid claim to this at ~40% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffordd_Pen_Llech http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/71230443 Regards, *Paul* On 11 January 2017 at 12:23, Jez Nicholson wrote: > Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest > residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a > stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% > http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire- > news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down > because it is no longer open to traffic. > > Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk- > england-38568889 > > "the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised > traffic" > > Anyone going to have a go? > > Regards, > Jez > > ___ > Talk-GB mailing list > Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb > > ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England
Baldwin Street in New Zealand has been named the World's steepest residential street at 35%. John Murray from Murray Data caused a bit of a stir by claiming St Marys Hill, Chester was steeper at 36% http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/chester-mocked-kiwi-cousins-over-12414920 but was beaten down because it is no longer open to traffic. Now the Beeb are looking for a challenger http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38568889 "the road must be open to the public through pedestrians and motorised traffic" Anyone going to have a go? Regards, Jez ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
