Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission

[Simon Poole]

A note on the side (and maybe an angle to divert some of those funds to
something really useful): what has always struck me very weird about
open geo data in the UK, compared to practically every other Western
European country (even those with far, far less open data), is the, in
general, dismal aerial imagery quality. It is not unusual to have at
least nominal resolution 25cm/px imagery if not 10cm and better in lots
of places for larger areas.

In my experience (which is fairly extensive in this regard) freeing up
imagery is much easier than actual datasets and our use case is rather
exotic in any case so typically not seen as a competitive danger.

Simon


Am 24.11.2017 um 12:22 schrieb Andy Robinson:
>
> Indeed Bob’s may be the best case scenario and I note perhaps the more
> cynical view taken by the likes of Ed Parkes.
>
>  
>
> I let out a little wee in my pants when I heard the budget
> announcement. Geospatial doesn’t get mentioned much on the floor of
> the house! So it’s an encouraging further nipping at the heels of the
> giant.
>
>  
>
> Each time I hear a welcome apparently positive announcement like this
> it makes me pause and wonder whether the tail is wagging the dog. The
> chancellor might be making funds available but the campaigning to get
> it is not done by the politicians but by those who feel it’s a
> worthwhile cause, they needed to sell it. So what influences drives
> like this? It’s easy to dismiss the role of OSM, in fact OSM may have
> never figured in the discussion about this new money, however I like
> to think we have influenced the marketplace for geospatial data in the
> UK and will continue to think we are (in our little world) the tail.
>
>  
>
> So that brings me on to the what next for OSM. Could it indeed have
> the potential to be the end of contribution to OSM in the UK?
>  Fortunately I think not. We are unique in the marketplace that we can
> react to new cheap technology much quicker than the giants like the
> OS. Around the corner is the prospect of the L1/L5 GNSS dual frequency
> exploitation to bring us sub metre positional accuracy with a standard
> smart phone. While the claimed 300mm accuracy is still a long way
> short of the OS’s 30mm surveying target for MasterMap products its
> getting us closer to being able to verify the near precise position of
> objects, better local rectification of the imagery we trace from and
> I’m sure lots of other things I’m just not thinking of right now. If
> we combine this with where technology is leading us – driverless
> devices, autonomous drones, improved remote sensing from satellites
> etc – we can expect the tools we use today to add to and maintain OSM
> in the UK to be every improving.
>
>  
>
> I believe there is another important point too. MasterMap may be a
> great product today but I’m not convinced its fit for even the next 10
> years. Some of the industries that uses MasterMap in the UK,
> engineering and the building industry to name just two, are rapidly
> moving to a 3 & 4 dimensional BIM approach. The 2D MasterMap looks
> more like an NPE sheet in the BIM field.
>
>  
>
> But, I hear you say, OSM is mostly a 2D product! Right! While we may
> be winning the battle on getting the OS to open up its data we may be
> losing the war if OSM doesn’t react to the future direction of
> geospatial data. In an increasingly 3D and 4D geospatial world OSM is
> starting to look like a rather clunky model. If a new Steve Coast
> starts a 4D mapping project and it gains initial traction would we
> jump ship?
>
>  
>
> I’ll leave that one with you for the weekend J
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>  
>
> *From:*SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 23 November 2017 19:14
> *To:* Gervase Markham
> *Cc:* Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission
>
>  
>
> The twitterverse has been talking of nothing else.
>
> Personally, I will be very cautiously optimistic.
>
> The best case scenario is one suggested by Bob Barr:
>
>   * OSGB changes it's business model from pay-to-use to transaction
> based (a la Land Registry).
>   * The £80 million (2 years at £40 million) is used to cushion
> revenue & staff implications
>   * Master Map is then released under OGL going on
>
> Perhaps more likely is a special free service agreement for restricted
> classes of businesses (SMEs) along the lines of PSMA (I blagged this
> point from someone else).
>
> Even if MM is all under OGL I suspect OSGB would not acquiesce to the
> current form of attribution on OSM.
>
> Owen Boswarva's asks if this would
> mean the
> end of OSM mapping in UK. A provocative thought.
>
> Jerry
>
>  
>
> On 23 November 2017 at 15:56, Gervase Markham  > wrote:
>
> This sounds... vaguely positive?
> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chancellor-to-unlock-hidden-value-of-government-data
>
> Gerv
>
>
> _

Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission

[Andy Robinson]

Indeed Bob’s may be the best case scenario and I note perhaps the more cynical 
view taken by the likes of Ed Parkes.

 

I let out a little wee in my pants when I heard the budget announcement. 
Geospatial doesn’t get mentioned much on the floor of the house! So it’s an 
encouraging further nipping at the heels of the giant.

 

Each time I hear a welcome apparently positive announcement like this it makes 
me pause and wonder whether the tail is wagging the dog. The chancellor might 
be making funds available but the campaigning to get it is not done by the 
politicians but by those who feel it’s a worthwhile cause, they needed to sell 
it. So what influences drives like this? It’s easy to dismiss the role of OSM, 
in fact OSM may have never figured in the discussion about this new money, 
however I like to think we have influenced the marketplace for geospatial data 
in the UK and will continue to think we are (in our little world) the tail.

 

So that brings me on to the what next for OSM. Could it indeed have the 
potential to be the end of contribution to OSM in the UK?  Fortunately I think 
not. We are unique in the marketplace that we can react to new cheap technology 
much quicker than the giants like the OS. Around the corner is the prospect of 
the L1/L5 GNSS dual frequency exploitation to bring us sub metre positional 
accuracy with a standard smart phone. While the claimed 300mm accuracy is still 
a long way short of the OS’s 30mm surveying target for MasterMap products its 
getting us closer to being able to verify the near precise position of objects, 
better local rectification of the imagery we trace from and I’m sure lots of 
other things I’m just not thinking of right now. If we combine this with where 
technology is leading us – driverless devices, autonomous drones, improved 
remote sensing from satellites etc – we can expect the tools we use today to 
add to and maintain OSM in the UK to be every improving. 

 

I believe there is another important point too. MasterMap may be a great 
product today but I’m not convinced its fit for even the next 10 years. Some of 
the industries that uses MasterMap in the UK, engineering and the building 
industry to name just two, are rapidly moving to a 3 & 4 dimensional BIM 
approach. The 2D MasterMap looks more like an NPE sheet in the BIM field. 

 

But, I hear you say, OSM is mostly a 2D product! Right! While we may be winning 
the battle on getting the OS to open up its data we may be losing the war if 
OSM doesn’t react to the future direction of geospatial data. In an 
increasingly 3D and 4D geospatial world OSM is starting to look like a rather 
clunky model. If a new Steve Coast starts a 4D mapping project and it gains 
initial traction would we jump ship?

 

I’ll leave that one with you for the weekend J

 

Cheers

Andy

 

From: SK53 [mailto:sk53@gmail.com] 
Sent: 23 November 2017 19:14
To: Gervase Markham
Cc: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Geospatial Commission

 

The twitterverse has been talking of nothing else.

Personally, I will be very cautiously optimistic.

The best case scenario is one suggested by Bob Barr:

*   OSGB changes it's business model from pay-to-use to transaction based 
(a la Land Registry). 
*   The £80 million (2 years at £40 million) is used to cushion revenue & 
staff implications
*   Master Map is then released under OGL going on

Perhaps more likely is a special free service agreement for restricted classes 
of businesses (SMEs) along the lines of PSMA (I blagged this point from someone 
else).

Even if MM is all under OGL I suspect OSGB would not acquiesce to the current 
form of attribution on OSM.

Owen Boswarva's asks if this would  
 mean the end of 
OSM mapping in UK. A provocative thought.

Jerry

 

On 23 November 2017 at 15:56, Gervase Markham  wrote:

This sounds... vaguely positive?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chancellor-to-unlock-hidden-value-of-government-data

Gerv


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