Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

2019-09-20 Thread jc129--- via Talk-GB
Hi Martin,
A few comments from a non-cyclist:

• Cycle parking on/off carriageway:
Suggest location=carriageway could be invented instead?

• Two-tier cycle parking:
There's also bicycle_parking=double_decker/double_deck/double_deck_stands 
in use combined total of 6 instances. I don't have a preference for 
which tag is used.

• Side-road entry treatment:
The sidewalk=yes tag is already in use as an attribute of highway=* 
when it is not known which side(s) of a street has sidewalks. 
I would tag this node as highway=crossing and traffic_calming=table. 
If the adjacent highway already has cycleway:sideroad_continuity=yes 
I'm not convinced why you need a continuous=yes tag on the crossing 
node as well especially as there appears to be tactile_paving on the 
example photo too. 
Is there something special about these crossings that vehicles/cyclists 
turning into/out of the side-road must give way to pedestrians?

Kind Regards,
Jez C

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb


Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

2019-09-20 Thread Rob Nickerson
Hi Martin,

I've started to look at this but only got as far as Advanced Stop Lines
(ASL) and Crossings. I've raised issues on the GitHub:
https://github.com/cyclestreets/tflcid-conversion/issues

So far of the new tags I have only reviewed ASL position
(left/right/center). I'm not a fan of the new tag as I think the name is
wrong and (more importantly it doesn't allow for mixed cases such as Right
AND Left). The TfL guide suggests mixed cases are possible. Can you see any
in the data?

Given that we are talking about the position that the cycle lane feeder
joins the ASL "reserviour" then my suggestion is to use:

   - asl:feeder:right = yes
   - asl:feeder:left = yes

Or some such like.

Best regards,
*Rob*
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb


Re: [Talk-GB] TfL cycle data published - schema mapping

2019-09-20 Thread Martin - CycleStreets




https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/

I'll shortly e-mail again with more detailed commentary on various 
aspects of what is shown, in particular cases where new tags are 
suggested.


As shown on that webpage, most of the data in the CID can be represented by 
OSM tags through a reasonable straight-forward one-to-one mapping. However, 
the following cases are the exceptions.


What are people's thoughts about these suggested new tags?


NEW TAGS PROPOSED

The schema mapping spreadsheet identifies the following cases where the CID 
has data types that are not ordinarily present in OSM:


• ASL position (left/right/center): OSM represents ASLs, but the entry lane 
has not historically been represented. This may be useful for more advanced 
cycle routing (e.g. a right-entry lane may be unrealistic for a child 
cyclist to negotiate). A new tag, asl_position={left|right|center} is 
proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#asl_fdrigh

• Stepped cycle track: Hybrid cycle lanes have long been the source of 
debate in OSM. The new CID data may provide an impetus for starting to 
resolve this. cycleway:track=hybrid is proposed as a backwards-compatible 
addition that elaborates on cycleway=track.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#clt_stepp

• Mandatory/Advisory Cycle Lane: OSM has no differentiation between 
mandatory (solid white line) and advisory (dashed white line) lane, 
probably because this distinction is rare elsewhere in the world. A new tag 
cycleway:lane={mandatory|advisory} is proposed as a backwards-compatible 
addition that elaborates on cycleway=lane. This would be useful for routing 
engines, who could infer a level of commitment to cyclists at each such 
location.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#clt_mandat

• Cycle Lane/Track Priority: This refers to whether the cycle lane 
continues across the sideroad, i.e. has priority. This is the standard 
situation abroad, but sadly in the UK it is not common, resulting in 
arduous and reduced-safety stop-start cycling in the case of a shared-use 
pavement. A new tag cycleway:sideroad_continuity=yes is proposed as a 
backwards-compatible addition that elaborates on cycleway={lane|track}.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#clt_priori

• Cycle parking on/off carriageway: This is not represented in OSM, as it 
does not really matter hugely to cyclists. However, this may be useful in 
pedestrian routing, as pavement cycle parking can be an obstruction. A 
simple new tag carriageway=yes is proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_carr

• Cyclehoop: No such tag currently (though bicycle_parking=bollard is 
similar), but volume of these in the CID makes this worth trying to 
represent. It represents a form of cycle parking that ideally ought to be 
improved through replacement with real stands rather than retrofitting 
poles essentially to facilitate fly-parking (which can then be disruptive 
to the visually-impaired). Accordingly, advocacy groups may well find this 
useful. A new tag bicycle_parking=cyclehoop is proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_hoop

• Wheel-rack cycle parking: This is unfortunately increasingly common in 
this UK. It is not currently represented as a specific cycle parking type 
in OSM. A new tag bicycle_parking=upright_stands is proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_wheel

• Two-tier cycle parking: This is unfortunately becoming more and more 
present in the UK, but bizarrely OSM does not have a representation in 
widespread use currently, with only 6 instances worldwide of 
bicycle_parking=two_tier. It is proposed this be used, which will hopefully 
then galvanise usage beyond London.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#prk_tier

• Early-release signals: Currently no support for this, but may be useful 
in improving cycle safety in routing. A new tag 
traffic_signals:bicycle_early_release=yes is proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#sig_early

• Side-road entry treatment: This refers to when a continuous pavement (to 
the benefit of pedestrians) is created across a sideroad, which ostensibly 
doubles as a form of traffic calming, which accounts for its presence in 
the CID. A new tag, continuous=yes, is proposed, to be used in combination 
with sidewalk=yes, as the continuity aspect is really what is important 
here rather than it forming a traffic calming hump as such.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#trf_entry

• Sinusoidal shape of traffic hump/cushion: This is a property rather than 
traffic calming type itself. New tag sinusoidal=yes is proposed.

https://bikedata.cyclestreets.net/tflcid/conversion/#trf_sinuso


PROBLEMATIC TAG REPRESENTATION OF CID ATTRIBUTES

Fields needing significant discussion:

• Cyclists dismount: This is unfortunately a can of worms and may not be 
resolvable 

[Talk-GB] September East Midlands meeting change of venue to Sheffield

2019-09-20 Thread SK53
Dear All,

As I will not be back from State of the Map in time for our scheduled
meeting and the people who are likely to be there are not from Nottingham,
we have changed the venue to the Devonshire Cat, Sheffield at 19:30 on
Tuesday.

I hope to update the wiki sometime today, but John Stanworth & John Baker
(rovastar) are co-ordinating the gathering.

This is also good time to give advance notice that our next Derby meeting
in November will be at the Brunswick near Derby Station.

Both changes reflect a real extension in range for our attendees, in large
measure due to John Stanworth's enthusiasm.

Cheers,

Jerry
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb