Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread SK53 
A few from my own records:

   - Carmarthenshire near Carmarthen I documented
   

   a while back. Signage is often absent and far too many PRoWs were, for all
   intents & purposes blocked. Several went through front gardens (including
   that of my sister's neighbour, which was why I was coy about the actual
   locations). Even ones which were signed proved difficult to follow on the
   ground. In practice I only mapped ones which I had walked, not ones signed
   from the road as experience taught me to regard this as unreliable.
   - Somewhere in this area
    alongside the
   Rother, I mapped a path which robbieonsea had found impassable in the
   previous summer, but was fine in early Spring. I can't remember the precise
   reason, but think it was because the path was overgrown. Tall herb
   (basically nettles I'd imagine) may only be a serious obstacle in summer).
   - In a couple of instances I've reported an overgrown path to the local
   authority and had word back that the footpaths officer had cleared the
   obstruction (near Swingate
   ,
   and near Osleston ). The
   Osleston obstruction was a Blackthorn thicket which I mapped, but didn't
   have time to return when we were in the area at New Year. In the first case
   I got along the 'path', in the second I'd surveyed it from the other end,
   so the route was obvious.
   - Scalford (Leics) FP 23 
   is marked on current and old maps, but no sign of it at the NW end. However
   there is a stile about 3 foot into the hawthorn hedge at the Southern end,
   so the notional line is obvious. In this case I mapped the route because
   there was sufficient on the ground evidence. The path was obstructed by
   farm buildings long ago.
   - Hickling (Notts) FP2 
   goes from the Hickling-Long Clawson Road to the S bank of the Grantham
   Canal. It is not signed by the council, and the gate from the road is
   locked. Mapped because I know it exists and checked the gates in case I'd
   got the wrong one. I haven't walked it though, but being able to follow the
   line was one reason I put it on OSM. I was specifically interested in this
   because there is very little of Hectad SK72 in Nottinghamshire and this
   prow potentially provided access to different habitats.
   - The area S of Long Lane (Derbyshire) specialises in overgrown stiles.
   John, Tom & I managed to get through them, but having more than one person
   helped greatly. The previous year reporting issues was very successful, but
   I didn't do it this year.
   - Hothfield, Kent
   . I had a short,
   abortive, pre-breakfast attempt to map some footpaths. Some were
   obstructed, but others it was just hard to work out the route. I only
   mapped what I walked and a few things I saw. I never received any response
   to my reports to the highway authority, despite having taken the trouble of
   creating an account on their system to make the reports in the first case.

In general footpath officers for Notts, Derbys & Leics have been very
responsive to my reports and queries. They obviously have given up on some
more-or-less defunct PRoWs (Scalford FP23 & Hickling FP2) when alternatives
exist or when the path doesn't go anywhere. Elsewhere this is not true, and
in these places it's probably safe to assume obstructions are permanent. In
the latter case I have just not mapped the path, but other on-the-ground
evidence (e.g., the track which AW 127 presumably follows).

Jerry

On Tue, 29 Sep 2020 at 13:52, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public
> footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?
>
> A taginfo search finds a few candidates:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values
>
> So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the
> nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that
> there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note
> tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual
> non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://li

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread Dave F via Talk-GB 

All
The most important thing to do in situations like this is to contact the 
LA responsible & ask them to clear it.


As I said on the preceding discussion of this topic in Talk, many of 
these descriptions are subjective. What you or I may consider completely 
impassible, others could be willing to hack/wade their way through.


Adding tags to inhibit routing/rendering is not the accurate way to 
proceed,


Use tags which accurately detail the physical conditions & leave it up 
to the user to decide if they wish to traverse  the path.


Even though i suggested Overgrown=yes as an example, it is subjective - 
Is it that the grass hasn't been mown for a few weeks or is it a Bornean 
rainforest?


DaveF

On 29/09/2020 13:51, Andy Townsend wrote:

Hello,

How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public 
footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?


A taginfo search finds a few candidates:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values

So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the 
nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that 
there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note 
tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual 
non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?


Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread nathan case 
> Gareth L
> If there's literally no trace of the path any more, I'd be more inclined to 
> report it to the local council RoW officer before mapping something that 
> doesn't exist on the ground.

Of course, just because *evidence* of it doesn't exist on the ground, doesn't 
mean the route itself doesn't exist. Public rights of way are highways in their 
own right and access is enshrined by law.

Agreed though - contact your council's PROW team if the PROW is blocked or 
inaccessible. It will either need clearing or (if permanently blocked, e.g. by 
a lake/river/development) re-routing.

Cheers,

Nathan


From: Gareth L 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2020 2:29 PM
To: Andy Townsend ; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and 
bridleways

Depends if that condition is seasonal?
I've prioritised tagging width values on canal towpaths in some locations 
where, whilst legal, it's precarious to try and cycle along as they're 
practically less than a metre wide.
I've come across the following proposed feature 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Obstacle which didn't 
seem to get traction - though could be useful.

I think I've just added a barrier node to cover off routing engines/some 
renders + as accurate a surface value as you can but they've always had a 
viable, not too out of the way, alternative route.

If there's literally no trace of the path any more, I'd be more inclined to 
report it to the local council RoW officer before mapping something that 
doesn't exist on the ground.

Gareth

From: Andy Townsend
Sent: 29 September 2020 13:51
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

Hello,

How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public
footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?

A taginfo search finds a few candidates:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values

So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the
nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that
there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note
tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual
non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?

Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread David Woolley 

On 29/09/2020 14:29, Gareth L wrote:
I’ve prioritised tagging width values on canal towpaths in some 
locations where, whilst legal, it’s precarious to try and cycle along as 
they’re practically less than a metre wide.


Unless you are just tagging with the actual width, I'd suggest that 
would be a dangerous precedent.  I've seen people wanting to invalidate 
official cycle routes because they think the traffic is too dangerous.



___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread Gareth L 
Depends if that condition is seasonal?
I’ve prioritised tagging width values on canal towpaths in some locations 
where, whilst legal, it’s precarious to try and cycle along as they’re 
practically less than a metre wide.
I’ve come across the following proposed feature 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Obstacle which didn’t 
seem to get traction - though could be useful.

I think I’ve just added a barrier node to cover off routing engines/some 
renders + as accurate a surface value as you can but they’ve always had a 
viable, not too out of the way, alternative route.

If there’s literally no trace of the path any more, I’d be more inclined to 
report it to the local council RoW officer before mapping something that 
doesn’t exist on the ground.

Gareth

From: Andy Townsend
Sent: 29 September 2020 13:51
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

Hello,

How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public
footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?

A taginfo search finds a few candidates:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values

So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the
nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that
there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note
tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual
non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?

Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread Tony Shield 

Recently I did


   way- 837322924

designation 
 
public_footpath
foot  
designated 

highway  
no 

lit    no
note  
Definitive Line of Right of Way, no trace on ground
prow_ref  	Chorley FP 4
source  
survey;lancashire_county_council_prow_gis_data
surface  
grass



This was based on Robert Whittakers work on a nearby bridleway  
Changeset: 77988415




On 29/09/2020 13:51, Andy Townsend wrote:

Hello,

How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public 
footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?


A taginfo search finds a few candidates:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values

So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the 
nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that 
there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note 
tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual 
non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?


Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

Re: [Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread Jez Nicholson 
My first thought was barrier=yes or some other form of barrier=* to tell
routers.

Another tag might be https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:obstacle

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 1:52 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public
> footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?
>
> A taginfo search finds a few candidates:
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values
>
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values
>
> So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the
> nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that
> there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note
> tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual
> non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

[Talk-GB] Blocked / overgrown / inaccessible footpaths and bridleways

2020-09-29 Thread Andy Townsend 

Hello,

How do people normally map things like "I know there is a public 
footpath that goes through here but it is currently inaccessible"?


A taginfo search finds a few candidates:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=overgrown#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=inaccessible#values

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/search?q=blocked#values

So far https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/overgrown seems the 
nearest (it's undocumented but mentioned on 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Hiking ).  However, I'm sure that 
there are examples that I've missed.  Most seem to be used within note 
tags which can of course contain any old text - are there any actual 
non-note tags and values that are used for this that I'm missing?


Best Regards,

Andy




___
Talk-GB mailing list
Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb