Re: [Talk-GB] Public Rights of Way data for Cambridgeshire

[John Sturdy]

It's interesting to compare their approach with that of the capital of what
used to be one of the most closed countries: the Municipality of Tirana
(Albania) is now putting (some of) its data online voluntarily, in
co-operation with the local hackerspace.

http://opendata.tirana.al/

They haven't seen the need to provide an English translation of the pages,
but many of the subject area titles are guessable without knowledge of
Albanian, and Google Translate knows Albanian.

I've been working with the Tirana hackerspace in mapping parts of the
country, and when I commented it would be nice to get plans of the
underground Cold War bunker complex that now houses the exhibition
"Bunkart", one phone call was enough to arrange access to the data (not yet
processed, though).

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Dave F  wrote:

> Great Scott! Like wading through treacle. I admire your perseverance.
>
> Did you ever get a reason as to why they were being so restrictive? Empire
> building? 'Knowledge is power?'
>
> After seeing the long list of other local authorities who had released
> their data you'd have thought they would realise they were being a bit
> siliy.
>
> Not only time, but /so/ much money wasted.
>
> Dave F.
>
>
> On 11/05/2017 00:20, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>
>> After a rather long battle...
>>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] the steepest residential street in England

[John Sturdy]

North Lane in Bath (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/2955824#map=19/51.37754/-2.33364) is very
steep, but only side entrances to houses open onto it, so I'm not sure
whether it counts fully as residential.

__John

On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 1:42 AM, Dave F  wrote:

>
> On 12/01/2017 01:02, Robert Norris wrote:
>
>> Ffordd_Pen_Llech is steep but it's one way (down), so if you're looking
>> for challenge to go up it on your bicycle you have to do so illegally.
>>
>> Apparently Vale Street (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/32024547) in
>> Bristol is meant to be very steep, but I don't know the incline. (Doesn't
>> seem to have incline posted looking at GSV. DaveF: Was this the road you
>> were thinking of or something in Bath?)
>>
>
> Just outside:
> https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3977312,-2.2940096,3a,88.4
> y,62.25h,61.15t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sedHvMRtPcF5jZw2uQdD4Hw!2e0
>
> It may not be the steepest, but it gives your calf muscles a good work
> out. That bend in the road is the real killer on a bike.
>
> DaveF
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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>
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Re: [Talk-GB] City names translation

[John Sturdy]

I hadn't known (or remembered) that recommendation from the wiki; but
still, the Ukrainian spelling (resulting in a Ukrainian reader
understanding it as a reasonable phonetic imitation of the English
name) may often be very far from a transliteration (letter-for-letting
substitution) from the English name.  I'll put Towcester forward as an
example!  (For those not familiar with it: it's pronounced like
Toaster.)

__John

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Ed Loach edlo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Since English has non-phonetic spelling (and some placenames are
 particularly non-phonetic) there's no solid base for automatic
 transliteration to something meaningful in another script, so I
 think
 it's reasonable to put the Ukrainian spelling in explicitly, for
 places for which such a spelling is established..

 Perhaps in the cast of non-phonetic places there is some argument
 that such names could possibly be added, but looking at Pavlo's
 proposed cities I noticed Chelmsford which already has two Cyrillic
 language transliterations I feel would be better removed.

 There is a bit in the wiki which recommends avoiding
 transliterations:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Avoid_transliteration

 Speaking of an on the ground example, a few years ago I visited
 Crete and while all signs were in Greek, some of the tourist ones
 were also in a Roman script (I can't claim English - a name is a
 name). One particular place we wanted to visit we struggled to find
 on the map, and it was only when we were driving in the area we
 found that the translation from Greek in the guide book we'd read in
 advance, and the translation and the map and the translation on the
 sign post were three different translations. In this instance (if
 I'd been an OSM mapper at the time) I'd have added a name:en of what
 was on the sign, though as noted above it isn't technically en. I
 suspect the three different translations were transliterations of
 different ways it was pronounced.

 As far as I know Chelmsford has no cyrillic translations on their
 signs.

 Ed


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[Talk-GB] BBC article on volunteers mapping hillforts

[John Sturdy]

No mention of OSM that I can see, though; a different kind of mapping:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23203500

http://www.arch.ox.ac.uk/hillforts-atlas.html


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Re: [Talk-GB] Usage of lanes / turn restrictions versus multiple ways when road is not divided

[John Sturdy]

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:06 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.comwrote:


 What do people think of this:

 http://osm.org/go/0EQSJEoZT-- (aerial: http://binged.it/10kuDNm )

 and this:

 http://osm.org/go/eu6_VCkLp-- (aerial: http://binged.it/16js1Ye )


I like these (although the first one isn't quite optimal, I might have a go
at improving it soon); I'm thinking particularly of navigation for the
blind, where a lot of detail is useful.   It could also be useful for
people planning outsize load HGV movements.   I don't think it's too
cluttered; it's simply a complicated piece of road layout, and the map
reflects it.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Pronunciation of place names

[John Sturdy]

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 My friend Terence Eden has some interesting comments on documenting
 the pronunciation of place names, in this blog post:

 Can we solve the problem of how to do this, in OSM?

We could have a keyword convention for indicating the pronunciation
(in various languages) using the International Phonetic Alphabet; for
example, we could supplement name:language=* with
name:language:IPA=*

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Re: [Talk-GB] Added road schemes announced in the Autumn Statement in OSM

[John Sturdy]

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
 On 10/12/2012 08:18, Kevin Peat wrote:


 On Dec 10, 2012 1:25 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote

 No. We should be mapping physical objects...

 There are plenty of non-physical objects mapped in OSM


 As primary tags?

Yes --- administrative boundaries, for example.

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Re: [Talk-GB] PRoW Ref codes (WAS:Hampshire Rights of Way Data released under OS OpenData licence)

[John Sturdy]

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 2:07 PM, Gregory nomoregra...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Is it not sensible to use the reference format of the place you are in,
 rather than create some sudo standard?

 A web application I'm developing straddles many counties.  So I've decided
 to adopt the scheme:
   code-for-council:code-for-path-adopted-by-council

I think this is a way of doing what you suggest, i.e. using the
reference format of the place you're in (along with the necessary
indication of what place you are in).

An alternative would be to use the council's own code, and then in
another tag (or in a relation, see
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Is_In)
indicating which county it is in.  But that seems a roundabout way of
doing it, harder both to use and to map.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Post boxes!

[John Sturdy]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Rob Nickerson
rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:

 Was thinking more along the line of asking him is he minds us using his
 photos to add the extra details to OSM (e.g. ref numbers, collection times,
 and royal cyphers).

Or we could invite him to sign up to OSM himself!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Remapping update

[John Sturdy]

I started to work on Hampshire, but got the following request from a decliner:

I was wondering if you would mind refraining from 're-mapping' my 
contributions for the time being? I'm still in discussions  with the OSMF 
regarding re-licensing some of my contributions which come from a 3rd party 
source not compatible with the new terms.

 Obviously we hope to have concluded this work before the 1st of April 
 deadline. In the meantime the more of my contributions that are deleted means 
 more work for me to put right once we get the licensing sorted.

I think the time's getting close enough that I'll resume that work anyway.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Vandalism changeset

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Oliver O'Brien m...@oliverobrien.co.uk wrote:
 Hi

 This appears to be a vandalism changeset: 10947970
 Details: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/10947970

 It would be great if there was a report obvious vandalism button on 
 Changeset information pages.
 I think we are being too nice if we assume that edits like this might be 
 someone new

Or perhaps it could be the sort of thing you get by trying to pan the
map while having a way selected, I've seen that before.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Vandalism changeset

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Odd Gustafsson odd_lars...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Yeah, adding: bridge=yes, foot=no, layer=5, oneway=-1 and surface=grass, to
 a road happens to me all the time ;)

Sorry, didn't look closely enough!  I just saw the odd-shaped road.

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Re: [Talk-GB] License changeover - Important West Country update

[John Sturdy]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Michael Collinson m...@ayeltd.biz wrote:
 Contributor Guy has now accepted the new contributor terms and OSMI License
 View is already showing the new picture [1].

I had done some remapping in that area, before Guy agreed --- could
someone now revert those changes, please?  I've put them at the top
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GB_revert_request_log

Some of them have other edits on top of them by now, but those are
also remapping and can presumably also be reverted.

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Re: [Talk-gb-midanglia] Spagehtti junctions in Cambridge and St Ives

[John Sturdy]

I've looked a bit further into disabled access to crossings, and
raised it on the accessability mailing list, and found that there is a
proposal to map crossing islands already
(http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Traffic_island).

After mailing about this, I then realized that it might be good to
mark routes through a crossing (particularly for the type of traffic
island which has two crossings onto it that aren't opposite each
other); and someone on the accessibility list found that crossing is
already used as a way as well as as a node.

__John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Pigging potlach ...

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also, can you describe the freeze? ...

 As Richard (albeit fairly bluntly) said, we've not heard similar
 reports from other people, but they might just be silently enduring
 it. Any further help you can give us to get to the root cause would be
 awesome.

The slowdown I notice is on a single-core 512Mb machine, and I haven't
looked into full system statistics for it but the behaviour is
consistent with thrashing virtual memory... after editing for a while,
drawing ways with the mouse gets very slow (almost freezes); I think I
found the browser process had got very large, but I can't remember.  I
just guessed that the code to search for whether the mouse was
currently on an existing node was looking through more stuff than
would fit in RAM, that was what the behaviour felt consistent with.
I can investigate further if you like, but are people concerned with
such small machines (other than as thin clients) these days anyway?
(It might be of concern for mappers in poor countries getting
second-hand machines, for example.)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Pigging potlach ...

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Richard Fairhurst
rich...@systemed.net wrote:

 I think there's always been a memory leak there with P2; I've noticed that
 sort of behaviour for months. I've only done minimal bits of delving into
 it, but suspect it's a case of _either_ some sprites being left on the
 display list (maybe the invisible sprites which P2 uses to define hit
 zones for each way/node), or that the event listeners by which Flash
 responds to mouse clicks (and other events) aren't being cleared properly.

Something like one of those would be consistent with what I'm seeing.
It doesn't happen on a larger machine, so I don't think it's just a
matter of the hit zone algorithm scaling poorly.

 Unfortunately it's not trivial to debug - I think this sort of thing is the
 way that Adobe makes their money from Flash (i.e. you need to buy Flash
 Builder for the profiling tools). But that's not to say it's impossible, and
 I'd very much like to do so.

Another oddity I've noticed (also probably deep within Flash) is that
P2 sometimes either doesn't respond to a keypress but does to the
corresponding mouse click, or just responds much slower to the
keypress.  (I notice this with add in advanced mode, versus the +
key.)  But I guess that by its nature Flash is more mouse-oriented
than keyboard-oriented, so this may be inherent to Flash rather than
specific to P2.

 (Incidentally, one simple thing you can do to speed P2 up is to clear any
 GPS traces you're no longer using - it's easy to forget that you have, in
 effect, a whole bunch of 1000-node ways sitting around!)

I don't think that's what's happening here (I get the effect without
any GPS traces loaded).

 I can investigate further if you like, but are people concerned
 with such small machines (other than as thin clients) these
 days anyway?

 Please do. I am interested, definitely - P2 should aim to run efficiently on
 any machine :) (and it's not entirely altruistic, as one of the machines I
 use regularly is a 2004 PowerPC Mac).

Next time it does it, I'll run top and get the process size, memory
usage, etc, for a start.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Project Drake - mapping the University of Cambridge

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:

 What do other people think? If there's a strong view not to have these
 parenthesised bits there, I'll take them out of the name tags.

I think it would be best to have the information somewhere, in a
consistent form (this probably means always using the same tag), but
for it not to be in the name tag.

I'm not sure what the tag should be, I don't think operator sounds
right.  Perhaps affiliation?  (I know someone with good knowledge of
CU formalities and terminology, and will ask him for suggestions.)

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[John Sturdy]

On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 25 November 2011 10:02, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
. Yes, “Former Brewery” is the former
 Ridley’s site. Bishop Nick launched their first beer at The Compasses,
 Littley Green (next village over) recently; their old brewery tap. Not sure
 what the site used for now, but am about to change “name” to “description”
 as it has never been called “Former Brewery”.
 Maybe 'Former' in the name is a bit of a giveaway and I should filter those
 out of the tagQueries list

Yes, Former is probably unambiguous, but note that the Bushmills
distillery (Co Antrim, Northern Ireland) is called The Old Bushmills
Distillery although it is still their working distillery!

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[John Sturdy]

I'm sure this is a cider brewery, I've driven past it quite a few
times and remember seeing the signage.  (I used to live near
Limerick). I don't know of any beers from Bulmers, I'm pretty sure
they're only ciders.

__John

On 11/20/11, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
 This was supposed to go to the list, sorry!

 On 20 November 2011 15:30, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 I am just looking through the BrewMap http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk
 tagQueries http://brewmap.maps3.org.uk/client/tagQueries.html page and
 am curious about the Bulmers brewery which is east of Limerick (
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34929891).   Do you think it is
 safe to assume that this is a cider producer (industrial=cider), or do
 Bulmers brew beer too?

 Just trying to reduce the number on the list!

 Graham.


 --
 Graham Jones
 Hartlepool, UK.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[John Sturdy]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Borbus bor...@gmail.com wrote:

 distillery=whisky

 Do we need to make a distinction between whisky and whiskey?  I don't
 know much about whiskey, I seem to remember the difference is more than
 just spelling.

Whisky (Scottish) is distilled twice (and the smoke used to dry the
grain passes through the grain); Whiskey (Irish) is distilled three
times, and the grain is dried by heat, but the smoke doesn't pass
through it.  So yes, there is a difference, not much, but we might as
well map it.

__John

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Re: [Talk-GB] Drinking Map of UK

[John Sturdy]

On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Brian Prangle bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Graham
  the one
 or two vineyards in the South

There's some disgreement on how to tag these
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Vineyard),
between
  landuse=vineyard
and
  landuse=agriculture
  produce=grape

(I'm inclined to use the former.)

 and what do you call places where they make
 cider/perry?

press?

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Re: [Talk-GB] Tagging Historic Features

[John Sturdy]

On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Graham Jones grahamjones...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All,
 I am interested in creating maps of historical features (e.g all roman
 remains, medieval things, World War 2 things etc.).

This could be extended to cover more everyday things, I suppose, but
that would require special attention by the ordinary renderers.  For
example, old routes of roads that have been re-aligned could be marked
with the usual highway=... and also with an indication of when it
went out of use.  However, to keep things simple for renderers (and
fewer tests in their code) it might be better to use some new key such
as historic_highway=

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Re: [Talk-GB] How to tag Police Memorial Trust (and similar) memorials

[John Sturdy]

On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote:
 I recently mapped a couple of Police Memorial Trust memorials, for example:

   
 http://www.policememorial.org.uk/Police_Memorial_Trust/PMT_Local_Memorials/PMT-Swindells-2004/PMT-Swindells-2004.htm

   http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.511667lon=-1.866628zoom=18layers=M

   http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1478159796

 with Tag:historic=memorial.

 I included the text on each memorial, tagged text. Would that be
 better tagged inscription, or with some other tag?

I've used commemoration on a couple of memorial benches in my
village, e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/1419167468, but
now you mention it, inscription sounds more generic, as there might
be inscribed public objects that aren't commemorative.

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Re: [Talk-gb-midanglia] Marker Posts

[John Sturdy]

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Nicola Smith nicolasmit...@hotmail.com wrote:
 Hi  All,

 I appreciate it is something we don't necessarily map, but has anyone seen
 any gas/oil marker posts on their travels? I am interested in the
 sub-surface layout

Me too --- I've been mapping quite a few powerlines, and would like to
get pipelines but haven't managed to spot many.

 and wonderered if anyone had seen any markers that they
 could let me know about.

I noticed something on the road going north-east from Six Mile Bottom
(maybe around 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.1985273063183lon=0.28215765953064zoom=18
but I can't remember exactly), I think it was a white-and-orange
banded post; I've been meaning to go back and investigate.  There's a
gas compressor station fairly nearby
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.1847850084305lon=0.270532965660095zoom=18)
and I suspect it's connected with that.

At 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.2105194628239lon=0.259908735752106zoom=17
I found a water pipeline (which I've tagged; it's visible on
osmarender but not mapnik) as there's a marker sign (like the fire
hydrant signs, but blue) where it crosses the road, and there's a
marker post where it meets the track going southeast from the road.  I
traced it as far as I could from the bing photos, as it shows as a
disturbance in the fields.

There's some kind of pumping station at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.1787299215794layers=Olon=0.295938849449158zoom=17,
and I could see a faint mark on bing showing a pipeline leading to it
(again visible on osmarender).  I suspect that one's water, as it
leads close to the Fleam Dyke Pumping Station, which is a groundwater
extraction plant.

There's a big gas pumping station at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4599286913872layers=Olon=0.842409431934357zoom=17
and again I managed to deduce a short section of pipeline from bing.

Any of these might be useful starting points for looking for posts.
I'll go back to the Six Mile Bottom road one in the next few days and
get the exact location (it's within a couple of miles of my house).

I also remember someone mentioning a gas pumping station near Duxford,
so that might be a good place to start looking around for posts.

__John

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Re: [Talk-gb-midanglia] Marker Posts

[John Sturdy]

There's also a water pipeline heading northeast (again, visible on
osmarender) at 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.2165490686893lon=0.0422796607017517zoom=17
-- I remember it being built (I used to live near there).  Again, I
traced it as far as I could from bing.

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