Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Brian Prangle]

Echoing Jerry's  previous plea - please comment on the Google docs AoA-
there has been a fresh definition of OpenStreetMap there for several days

Regards
Brian

On 22 March 2016 at 21:32, Tim Waters  wrote:

> Frederik is correct in saying that OpenStreetMap Project does not
> appear in the OSMF Articles of Association.
>
> However, on the OSMF website, the following words are used: "The
> Foundation supports the OpenStreetMap Project."
>
> So the wider OSM "thing" is the OpenStreetMap Project rather than the
> OpenStreetMap Community. I quite like that differentiation, even
> though I cannot find the definition of what the project is!
>
> "supports" is also a quite different meaning than "managed by"
>
> If we wanted to have a definition that includes the OSMF: "The
> OpenStreetMap Project as currently supported by the OpenStreetMap
> Foundation Ltd" perhaps?
>
> Tim
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Tim Waters]

Frederik is correct in saying that OpenStreetMap Project does not
appear in the OSMF Articles of Association.

However, on the OSMF website, the following words are used: "The
Foundation supports the OpenStreetMap Project."

So the wider OSM "thing" is the OpenStreetMap Project rather than the
OpenStreetMap Community. I quite like that differentiation, even
though I cannot find the definition of what the project is!

"supports" is also a quite different meaning than "managed by"

If we wanted to have a definition that includes the OSMF: "The
OpenStreetMap Project as currently supported by the OpenStreetMap
Foundation Ltd" perhaps?

Tim

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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[David Woolley]

On 20/03/16 19:25, Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap) wrote:

The most simplest phrase I can think of that isn’t as flippant as the
Thameslink Programme would be “an open-access cartography service”.


The service is not the main part of the operation.  That is provided by 
the map database.  The associated services are only provided to assist 
contributors to the database, and to promote its use.  OSM is not 
competing with Bing and Google as actual service providers.



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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap)]

Hi,

The most simplest phrase I can think of that isn’t as flippant as the 
Thameslink Programme would be “an open-access cartography service”.

— Amaroussi.

> On 20 Mar 2016, at 18:44, Gregory  wrote:
> 
> This isn't a description/blurb for the website/marketing.
> 
> This is for the AoA which is a legal document and needs to state what it 
> means when it refers to "OpenStreetMap". Reading the document (or searching 
> it for "OpenStreetMap") will help you understand the relevance. As Jerry said 
> on the call, it needs to be a proper legal definition (not using words that 
> need further definition) and it shouldn't matter too much to us (our 
> branding/slogan can change any time).
> 
> 
> From the land of the prince bishops,
> Gregory.
> 
> On 20 March 2016 at 17:55, Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap)  > wrote:
> Dang, wrong sender email and wrong destination email again!
> 
> Maybe try:
> 
> “A free map service where users don’t need to pay elephant-sized fees to 
> reuse the data.”
> 
> or
> 
> “Maps without borders, literally.” 
> 
> —Amaroussi
> 
>> On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:36, Gregory > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition of 
>> "OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.
>> 
>> For me, I think it is important that OSM is not controlled by a single 
>> entity, and the ability to fork and/or replicate it is essential. Some folk 
>> may feel more strong about me. I am actually happy with the OSMF 
>> protecting/guarding the data and infrastructure at the moment. It may not 
>> ever happen or be needed, but I think it's good to keep possible if two 
>> foundations existed. Technology is possible, and will get better with the 
>> ability of duplicate databases that communicate to keep up-to-date without 
>> you noticing. This already happens within OSMF having two DB servers, and I 
>> think France had a DB server with a read/write API.
>> 
>> Anyway, I also understand a clear/simple definition is needed.
>> 
>> Currently...
>> "Open Data and services managed by the OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd."
>> 
>> Able to make it less exclusive?, so we're not fixed to the OSMF.
>> "An open dataset and connected services which are available from 
>> OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd, and other/mirror providers."
>> 
>> Possible?
>> "A free geographic database created by a number of people, along with 
>> initiatives and services to promote it's maintenance"
>> 
>> Just thought, how often do the draft AoAs mention "OpenStreetMap"?
>> Answer: 9 times
>> References: 5.1 (to OSM community), 5.2 & 5.3 (to OSM data), 6.6(actually a 
>> reference to OSMF), the CIC name(3 times), and the definition is 2 
>> occurrences.
>> 
>> We talked about OSM community needing it's own definition.
>> I still defend that the data on OSMF's servers is only one copy of it, it 
>> just happens that at the moment that copy gets accepted as the most recent. 
>> However, it seems defining the community is more important than defining OSM 
>> itself. :)
>> 
>> 
>> From a 100-year-old terrace house,
>> Gregory.
>> 
>> [1] Notes of our meeting 
>> https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb 
>> 
>> [2] OSMF website has a (non-legal) description 
>> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page 
>> 
>> 
>> P.S. I sent this on Thursday night, just from the wrong e-mail address so it 
>> didn't go through.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Gregory
>> o...@livingwithdragons.com 
>> http://www.livingwithdragons.com 
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb 
>> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory
> o...@livingwithdragons.com 
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com 
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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 03/20/2016 06:36 PM, Gregory wrote:
> Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition
> of "OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.

It might be interesting to consider - unless you've done that already -
that the OSMF itself is *not* limited to supporting OpenStreetMap; in
fact OpenStreetMap (as a project) appears nowhere in the OSMF AoA.
Instead, the OSMF is established for

(1) encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free
geospatial data; and

(2) providing geospatial data for anybody to use and share.

Likewise, the boilerplate local chapter agreement only binds the parties
to (seek to) "mutually support the activities of the other".

So theoretically, if the OSMF should decide that the newly founded
LibreStreetMap project is worthier of support than OSM is, the OSMF
*could* support LibreStreetMap instead of (or in addition to) OSM, and
the local chapter would be expected to "mutually support" this activity.

This is all very hypothetical terrain of course but if you wanted to
keep the LC in sync with OSMF lingo then you'd have to speak of general
"free geospatial data" too, and not not specifically of OSM.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Gregory]

This isn't a description/blurb for the website/marketing.

This is for the AoA which is a legal document and needs to state what it
means when it refers to "OpenStreetMap". Reading the document (or searching
it for "OpenStreetMap") will help you understand the relevance. As Jerry
said on the call, it needs to be a proper legal definition (not using words
that need further definition) and it shouldn't matter too much to us (our
branding/slogan can change any time).


>From the land of the prince bishops,
Gregory.

On 20 March 2016 at 17:55, Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap) 
wrote:

> Dang, wrong sender email and wrong destination email again!
>
> Maybe try:
>
> “A free map service where users don’t need to pay elephant-sized fees to
> reuse the data.”
>
> or
>
> “Maps without borders, literally.”
>
> —Amaroussi
>
> On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:36, Gregory  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition of
> "OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.
>
> For me, I think it is important that OSM is not controlled by a single
> entity, and the ability to fork and/or replicate it is essential. Some folk
> may feel more strong about me. I am actually happy with the OSMF
> protecting/guarding the data and infrastructure at the moment. It may not
> ever happen or be needed, but I think it's good to keep possible if two
> foundations existed. Technology is possible, and will get better with the
> ability of duplicate databases that communicate to keep up-to-date without
> you noticing. This already happens within OSMF having two DB servers, and I
> think France had a DB server with a read/write API.
>
> Anyway, I also understand a clear/simple definition is needed.
>
> Currently...
> "Open Data and services managed by the OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd."
>
> Able to make it less exclusive?, so we're not fixed to the OSMF.
> "An open dataset and connected services which are available from
> OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd, and other/mirror providers."
>
> Possible?
> "A free geographic database created by a number of people, along with
> initiatives and services to promote it's maintenance"
>
> Just thought, how often do the draft AoAs mention "OpenStreetMap"?
> Answer: 9 times
> References: 5.1 (to OSM community), 5.2 & 5.3 (to OSM data), 6.6(actually
> a reference to OSMF), the CIC name(3 times), and the definition is 2
> occurrences.
>
> We talked about OSM community needing it's own definition.
> I still defend that the data on OSMF's servers is only one copy of it, it
> just happens that at the moment that copy gets accepted as the most recent.
> However, it seems defining the community is more important than defining
> OSM itself. :)
>
>
> From a 100-year-old terrace house,
> Gregory.
>
> [1] Notes of our meeting
> https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb
> [2] OSMF website has a (non-legal) description
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page
>
> P.S. I sent this on Thursday night, just from the wrong e-mail address so
> it didn't go through.
>
> --
> Gregory
> o...@livingwithdragons.com
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>


-- 
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o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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Re: [Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Amaroussi (OpenStreetMap)]

Dang, wrong sender email and wrong destination email again!

Maybe try:

“A free map service where users don’t need to pay elephant-sized fees to reuse 
the data.”

or

“Maps without borders, literally.” 

—Amaroussi

> On 20 Mar 2016, at 17:36, Gregory  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition of 
> "OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.
> 
> For me, I think it is important that OSM is not controlled by a single 
> entity, and the ability to fork and/or replicate it is essential. Some folk 
> may feel more strong about me. I am actually happy with the OSMF 
> protecting/guarding the data and infrastructure at the moment. It may not 
> ever happen or be needed, but I think it's good to keep possible if two 
> foundations existed. Technology is possible, and will get better with the 
> ability of duplicate databases that communicate to keep up-to-date without 
> you noticing. This already happens within OSMF having two DB servers, and I 
> think France had a DB server with a read/write API.
> 
> Anyway, I also understand a clear/simple definition is needed.
> 
> Currently...
> "Open Data and services managed by the OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd."
> 
> Able to make it less exclusive?, so we're not fixed to the OSMF.
> "An open dataset and connected services which are available from 
> OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd, and other/mirror providers."
> 
> Possible?
> "A free geographic database created by a number of people, along with 
> initiatives and services to promote it's maintenance"
> 
> Just thought, how often do the draft AoAs mention "OpenStreetMap"?
> Answer: 9 times
> References: 5.1 (to OSM community), 5.2 & 5.3 (to OSM data), 6.6(actually a 
> reference to OSMF), the CIC name(3 times), and the definition is 2 
> occurrences.
> 
> We talked about OSM community needing it's own definition.
> I still defend that the data on OSMF's servers is only one copy of it, it 
> just happens that at the moment that copy gets accepted as the most recent. 
> However, it seems defining the community is more important than defining OSM 
> itself. :)
> 
> 
> From a 100-year-old terrace house,
> Gregory.
> 
> [1] Notes of our meeting 
> https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb 
> 
> [2] OSMF website has a (non-legal) description 
> http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page 
> 
> 
> P.S. I sent this on Thursday night, just from the wrong e-mail address so it 
> didn't go through.
> 
> -- 
> Gregory
> o...@livingwithdragons.com 
> http://www.livingwithdragons.com 
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb

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[Talk-GB] [UK Chapter] Definition of OSM.

[Gregory]

Hi all,

Included in the meeting on Thursday[1] was discussion on the definition of
"OpenStreetMap" in the AoA.

For me, I think it is important that OSM is not controlled by a single
entity, and the ability to fork and/or replicate it is essential. Some folk
may feel more strong about me. I am actually happy with the OSMF
protecting/guarding the data and infrastructure at the moment. It may not
ever happen or be needed, but I think it's good to keep possible if two
foundations existed. Technology is possible, and will get better with the
ability of duplicate databases that communicate to keep up-to-date without
you noticing. This already happens within OSMF having two DB servers, and I
think France had a DB server with a read/write API.

Anyway, I also understand a clear/simple definition is needed.

Currently...
"Open Data and services managed by the OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd."

Able to make it less exclusive?, so we're not fixed to the OSMF.
"An open dataset and connected services which are available from
OpenStreetMap Foundation Ltd, and other/mirror providers."

Possible?
"A free geographic database created by a number of people, along with
initiatives and services to promote it's maintenance"

Just thought, how often do the draft AoAs mention "OpenStreetMap"?
Answer: 9 times
References: 5.1 (to OSM community), 5.2 & 5.3 (to OSM data), 6.6(actually a
reference to OSMF), the CIC name(3 times), and the definition is 2
occurrences.

We talked about OSM community needing it's own definition.
I still defend that the data on OSMF's servers is only one copy of it, it
just happens that at the moment that copy gets accepted as the most recent.
However, it seems defining the community is more important than defining
OSM itself. :)


>From a 100-year-old terrace house,
Gregory.

[1] Notes of our meeting
https://hackpad.com/2016-03-17-OSM-GB-Meeting-UGWMWunxvTb
[2] OSMF website has a (non-legal) description
http://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Main_Page

P.S. I sent this on Thursday night, just from the wrong e-mail address so
it didn't go through.

-- 
Gregory
o...@livingwithdragons.com
http://www.livingwithdragons.com
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