[Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common) approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There isn't anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps would encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come'). What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these in the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed proposed=rail? On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and end- date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network, watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in. Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Regards, Peter Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
On 18 Dec 2008, at 10:52, Peter Miller wrote: Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. I'm starting to come round to the thinking that we should use one way for each track, as often happens now in stations. You can then get detailed to the point of where you can change tracks, and which tracks actually have a platform against them. How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Good idea. I'd also be interested in whether a section of track is electrified. Has anyone got any ideas for that? power=overhead/third_rail/none/ overhead_and_third_rail ? Shaun smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Proposed projects are something I'm keen to see mapped. Once a feature reaches the planning application stage I think we should be prepared to document it. The principal issue with this is of course that most planning applications go hand in hand with an OS derived map/plan. Thus representing the planning application details in OSM isn't going to particularly accurate. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. I'd suggest a tag of planning for an object that has gone out for consultation. Once its approved it could be changed to approved and then finally changed to construction once work gets underway. Major highway projects have always been shown on conventional maps before they have been built so why would we be any different. It also opens up our mapping for some more uses. For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more of as problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really like to be able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the tools and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also have a big concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual representation) can reside with objects that are at the same location today. In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be incorporated into the present. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller Sent: 18 December 2008 10:52 AM To: Steve Chilton Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common) approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There isn't anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps would encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come'). What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these in the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed proposed=rail? On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and end- date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network, watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in. Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Regards, Peter Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
On 18 Dec 2008, at 11:12, Shaun McDonald wrote: On 18 Dec 2008, at 10:52, Peter Miller wrote: Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. I'm starting to come round to the thinking that we should use one way for each track, as often happens now in stations. You can then get detailed to the point of where you can change tracks, and which tracks actually have a platform against them. Doing the track layout within the station is something I am sure that railway people will want to do - indeed they won't be able to resist doing it :) Do lets get the separation of the track true-to-life though. With regard to long sections of parallel track between stations I suggest the 'lanes' tag could be suitable, if not then the parallel tracks would need to be placed the correct physical distance apart and then the renderers would need to be able to simplify the presentation down to a single line for wider area maps and do two track far enough apart so that they can be distinguished from each other for close up maps. Sounds like we are going to need to 'suck it and see'. Possibly we should go for the most detailed representation on the ground and then use relations to associate elements together to help the renderer. Regards, Peter How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Good idea. I'd also be interested in whether a section of track is electrified. Has anyone got any ideas for that? power=overhead/third_rail/none/ overhead_and_third_rail ? Shaun ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
On 18 Dec 2008, at 11:12, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more of as problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really like to be able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the tools and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also have a big concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual representation) can reside with objects that are at the same location today. In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be incorporated into the present. Ok, so the only abandoned stations that should be included are ones where the actual station still exists, even if it has been re- purposed. An abandoned station with the old platform visible and possibly a derelict building could be shown as railway=abandoned_station. A re-purposed station could possibly be tagged as building=restaurant and railway=abandoned_station? If all physical evidence of the station has gone then it should not be marked. Should the same rules apply to railway lines and to other historical features - ie if they have completely gone then they should not be marked? A railway line that is now a footpath, or a cycle path or even an identifiable strip of wildlife and tress should be shown but if it is now plowed fields then it should not be shown? Peter Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller Sent: 18 December 2008 10:52 AM To: Steve Chilton Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common) approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There isn't anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps would encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come'). What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these in the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed proposed=rail? On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and end- date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network, watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in. Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Regards, Peter Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Peter Miller wrote: Sent: 18 December 2008 11:55 AM To: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) Cc: 'Peter Miller'; 'Steve Chilton'; talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map On 18 Dec 2008, at 11:12, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more of as problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really like to be able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the tools and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also have a big concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual representation) can reside with objects that are at the same location today. In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be incorporated into the present. Ok, so the only abandoned stations that should be included are ones where the actual station still exists, even if it has been re- purposed. An abandoned station with the old platform visible and possibly a derelict building could be shown as railway=abandoned_station. A re-purposed station could possibly be tagged as building=restaurant and railway=abandoned_station? If all physical evidence of the station has gone then it should not be marked. Should the same rules apply to railway lines and to other historical features - ie if they have completely gone then they should not be marked? A railway line that is now a footpath, or a cycle path or even an identifiable strip of wildlife and tress should be shown but if it is now plowed fields then it should not be shown? That's the view I take for the present time. But where a footpath or other feature makes use of the original feature then I would definitely add a tag that explains the features former use, that's useful data. Where the feature has been completely lost (ploughed field, buried Archaeological site etc) then we need more tools and methods of layering before we can realistically expect contributors to work with the data, it's simply too confusing otherwise. Cheers Andy Peter Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Miller Sent: 18 December 2008 10:52 AM To: Steve Chilton Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map On 17 Dec 2008, at 22:03, Steve Chilton wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Great stuff (and great minds!). Is there an agreed (or common) approach to tagging abandoned/dismantled railway stations? There isn't anything in map features about it, but it would be great content to have in there in OSM, particularly for those with an interest in historical railways. To render historical stations on these maps would encourage contributors (as in 'render and they will come'). What about proposed lines and stations? There are a number of these in the UK and again it would be very useful to be able to see where they were. railway=construction construction=rail? railway=proposed proposed=rail? On the subject of historical railways, can one use start-date and end- date attributes to animate the life of the UK's railway network, watching it growing a shrinking over the years. There may be some complex cases where a line opened, closed and was then re-opened, but we could leave that for now in order to get the basic information in. Could these maps render the 'lanes' tag, around which there seems to be an emerging consensus for showing the number of tracks, typically 1 for single track working, 2 and the 4. The rendering should use a different style for single track working and multi-track, typically using a different symbol. How about rendering speed limits using colour? There are some sections of track with max-speed already, but this rendering would greatly encouraged if it for other areas. Regards, Peter Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7:21 PM No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.19/1854 - Release Date: 17/12/2008 7
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
2008/12/18 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: But where a footpath or other feature makes use of the original feature then I would definitely add a tag that explains the features former use, that's useful data. I hadn't thought of it before, but that sounds like a good idea. There are a lot of cycleways near me that used to be railways. Currently they're just tagged with highway=cycleway, what would you suggest I add? I note that Map Features says that railway=abandoned (which would have been my first choice) is not to be used if the feature has been turned into another use, eg cycleway. Russ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
For the record, at the moment the mapnik layer does not render railway=dismantled. It does render railway=abandoned or =disused but ONLY if there is NO associated highway tag. Thus abandoned railway turned into a cycleway will show as the latter, but will show as abandoned railway where it is not, eg: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.8927lon=-0.5832zoom=13layers=B00 0FTF In my view it is useful to also tag stuff as railway=abandoned ion that way. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/schools/hssc/staff/profiles/technical/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2008: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/cartographers08/ -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Russ Phillips Sent: 18 December 2008 12:24 To: Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map 2008/12/18 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com: But where a footpath or other feature makes use of the original feature then I would definitely add a tag that explains the features former use, that's useful data. I hadn't thought of it before, but that sounds like a good idea. There are a lot of cycleways near me that used to be railways. Currently they're just tagged with highway=cycleway, what would you suggest I add? I note that Map Features says that railway=abandoned (which would have been my first choice) is not to be used if the feature has been turned into another use, eg cycleway. Russ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: For features with a previous use (eg abandoned stations) I have more of as problem at this juncture of the project. At some point I'd really like to be able to record some historical map data but I don't feel we have the tools and editing visualisation to do it properly at the moment. I also have a big concern about how old features which have now been lost (no visual representation) can reside with objects that are at the same location today. In some cases, especially for roads, parts of old may be incorporated into the present. WHS. I'd love to record information about past railways, but in many of the places I map this would directly conflict with existing features. In other places, all trace of the railway has been obliterated, so mapping this in the main OSM dataset would be inaccurate. Is the idea of a separate, railways-only dataset too far fetched? It would include all past, present and proposed railway features, but wouldn't pollute the main OSM db. Transparent tiles from this dataset overlaid over existing OSM renderings could be interesting. Jono. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Hi, Jonathan Bennett wrote: Is the idea of a separate, railways-only dataset too far fetched? I'd rather have a separate historic objects dataset or so, as there are many other historic places people would like to map but which would pollute the main map. Big difficulty is that past and present are connected in some places (old church, railway now used as cycleway), so if someone moves today's church in the database, the 100 year old church must be moved as well - while other things are in different universes completely... Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
oy - less of the 'his' please! I'm planning on developing mine further in the new year, largely for personal learning, but I'd love a copy of the mapnik template you used for you version - I may 'borrow' some server time over christmas to re-render to as high a level zoom as I can. I'm also planning on adding in an abandoned rail line in the new year if I get chance to spend some time mapping Saddleworth as a whole, so I'm certainly interested to hear people's views on how a historic rail line now used as a bridle path should be used. I'm also interested in tagging of line names and whether names should be left in or made relations. -- K__rast On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:03:31 + Steve Chilton s.l.chil...@mdx.ac.uk wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Yet another rail network map
Anyone agree they should share a featured-image? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_image_proposals#Trains On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Steve Chilton s.l.chil...@mdx.ac.uk wrote: Bizarely, the day Kaerest released his openrailmap I had rendered a UK rail network map - purely for visualisation and checking purposes, but have only just had time to upload it to the server. It is at: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/railway.html No particular plans to enhance it or add details. It is just a companion to: http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~steve8/canal.html which has been re-rendered with last week's UK planet file. Cheers STEVE ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
