Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm sk53@gmail.com wrote: new-fangled expensive wedding licences. Or telling my local vicar and his wife that they live in a place of worship. That does rather assume the right building has been marked! I've just come across a case where the OS have marked the church hall and left the church as an ordinary building. Whilst I mapped it using only the initial sighting on the ground, and OS OpenData (ignoring their PW), subsequently checking with other resources, they seem to have thought the lift motor room, for the hall, was a tower (Pathfinder Series) and missed the small spire on the church itself, even though the church is the larger, and more impressive, building. (I will recheck it on the ground, but nothing so far seems to contradict my initial mapping.) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
Exactly why OS Street View should only be used as a guide, not gospel. On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 10:21 AM, OpenStreetmap HADW osmh...@gmail.comwrote: On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm sk53@gmail.com wrote: new-fangled expensive wedding licences. Or telling my local vicar and his wife that they live in a place of worship. That does rather assume the right building has been marked! I've just come across a case where the OS have marked the church hall and left the church as an ordinary building. Whilst I mapped it using only the initial sighting on the ground, and OS OpenData (ignoring their PW), subsequently checking with other resources, they seem to have thought the lift motor room, for the hall, was a tower (Pathfinder Series) and missed the small spire on the church itself, even though the church is the larger, and more impressive, building. (I will recheck it on the ground, but nothing so far seems to contradict my initial mapping.) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
The rules for places of worship differ from other amenities in that there is a strong diktat that only the actual building (where there is a building) should be tagged. This seems to be partially backed up by an assumption that all places of worship are medieval churches with graveyards, so that the surrounding grounds can be tagged as a cemetery. That simply isn't true for even most of the Christian churches around me, let alone for other religions. The specific case I have in mind is what I call the Ealing Road Temple** http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27748245, which was under construction for a long time, and probably is still not complete, but has been operating for over a year. The grounds for this are tagged as landuse=construction, with no details of the actual building. According to the rules, one needs to map the building and mark that as a place_of_worship, but what does one do with the site that it is on? Simply removing it would be destroying real information. Leaving it as it is would no longer reflect the true state. ** It does have a name, but, until I next get down there, I'd have to rely on Google for that. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
OpenStreetmap HADW wrote: The rules for places of worship This is OpenStreetMap. We don't have rules. Stop placing so much trust in the wiki. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Grounds-of-Places-of-Worshiip-when-not-Graveyards-tp5775209p5775214.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
The convention exists because the grounds in which a place of worship exists are rarely places of worship themselves. Try conducting a marriage in a churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for landuse=churchyardhttp://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/landuse=churchyard, to heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the new-fangled expensive wedding licences. Or telling my local vicar and his wife that they live in a place of worship. The churchyard belonging to my mother's church contains, inter alia, two places of worship (CoE and a Nigerian church), a gym (amenity=fitness) , YMCA hostel, two private residences (rented out by the parish)., and as far as I can make out a small urban farm. As an alternative we could just take a Quaker view and say all of life is holy and just tag an object bbox -180,-90,180,90 with amenity=place_of_worship and be done with it. On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.netwrote: OpenStreetmap HADW wrote: The rules for places of worship This is OpenStreetMap. We don't have rules. Stop placing so much trust in the wiki. :) cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Grounds-of-Places-of-Worshiip-when-not-Graveyards-tp5775209p5775214.html Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm sk53@gmail.com wrote: churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for landuse=churchyard, to heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the I was hoping for something with less Christian connotations. Besides having a zero taginfor score, landuse=templeyard (also temple_yard) is just balkanizing the tagging. landuse=precinct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct#Religion) might have been better, but that also has a zero score, and it is maybe not a well known term (temple precinct has 54,000 hits on Google, though (58,000 with church and 27,000 with cathedral). Do I have a prima facie case for proposing precinct, here? I wonder if there is an efficient way to search for the immediate containing feature for building=temple, to find precedents. I guess one can xapi the temples, then do a bounding box fetch around each. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Grounds of Places of Worshiip when not Graveyards
Yes, churchyard doesn't work very well for non-Christian sites, and indeed many christian ones. Quaker meeting houses are not usually described as churches. I could live with landuse=religious_precinct, but not precinct per se. First off our US members will instantly start mapping votiing districts and the Kennedy 'precinct' with the tag thus making it as meaningless as their use of place=hamlet. Secondly its general use is pretty much American English. Lastly, other meanings as listed on Wikipedia give scope for ambiguity. Any extension of place_of_worship with (_precinct) or (_grounds) seems unusually clunky. Jerry On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 1:41 PM, OpenStreetmap HADW osmh...@gmail.comwrote: On 28 August 2013 09:50, sk53.osm sk53@gmail.com wrote: churchyard (probably the tag you are looking for landuse=churchyard, to heavily used but in existence) instead of a church: you need one of the I was hoping for something with less Christian connotations. Besides having a zero taginfor score, landuse=templeyard (also temple_yard) is just balkanizing the tagging. landuse=precinct (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precinct#Religion) might have been better, but that also has a zero score, and it is maybe not a well known term (temple precinct has 54,000 hits on Google, though (58,000 with church and 27,000 with cathedral). Do I have a prima facie case for proposing precinct, here? I wonder if there is an efficient way to search for the immediate containing feature for building=temple, to find precedents. I guess one can xapi the temples, then do a bounding box fetch around each. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
