Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Dave F]

On 03/01/2017 22:16, David Woolley wrote:
Actually, it only needs a vague concept.  Some technology businesses 
don't actually develop the product until they already have a customer 
for it!  (That's not even new; I learned it from a company I worked 
for about 25 years ago.)


Didn't they all go belly-up in the dot-com bubble burst?

DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 01/04/2017 10:52 AM, Andy Robinson wrote:
> I'm voting for the statue. Can I have a Robinson Tower too?

Yes but this will limit your options for statue design to essentially
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6959831/jbareham_160818_1191_0102.0.jpg
...

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Andy Robinson]

I'm voting for the statue. Can I have a Robinson Tower too?

:-O

Cheers
Andy

-Original Message-
From: Richard Fairhurst [mailto:rich...@systemed.net] 
Sent: 03 January 2017 17:58
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

Rob Nickerson wrote:
> No, the first steps are to get people signed up as members (more 
> shortly when I have had a chance to speak with Gregory) and then to 
> host a first meeting.

I see your point and it's great that so much work has gone into pre-thinking 
the incorporation and such like... but I'm with Steve on this one: it would be 
good to actually get something tangible happening. Whether that's a slippy map 
or a lobbying group or PR or a crowdfunded satellite or a statue of Steve 
Coast/Andy Robinson/Steve Chilton in Trafalgar Square is not really the issue. 
There's a lot of enthusiasm for OSM in the UK - let's capitalise on it sooner 
rather than later.

> The intention is that we can discuss ideas of what to do at that 
> meeting. I'm sure that there will be a wide range of ideas, many of 
> which wouldn't have even crossed my mind at all.

Traditionally OSM works by empowering those with great ideas to act on those 
great ideas, rather than by holding a long series of meetings to pre-plan 
everything. Otherwise you end up with "50 people voted that we should do !". 
"Great, which of them is actually doing it?" "Er..."

But you know all this. :) And well done for getting the paperwork sorted.

cheers
Richard




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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[David Woolley]

On 03/01/17 19:15, Dave F wrote:


Indeed.
A business needs something to sell before you can go scouting for
customers.


Actually, it only needs a vague concept.  Some technology businesses 
don't actually develop the product until they already have a customer 
for it!  (That's not even new; I learned it from a company I worked for 
about 25 years ago.)


Not sure how that generalises to OSM UK!

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Richard Fairhurst]

Rob Nickerson wrote:
> If anyone is holding off from doing something just because the OSM UK 
> company is "coming", please don't. For one, you can make a great start 
> before OSM UK, but also there is no guarantee that OSM UK will work 
> on your specific idea.

The main issue is that there are a few things - not many, but a few - where
a formally constituted organisation is required. Lobbying is the main one -
I'm quite capable of writing rants in a truly do-ocratic fashion, but for a
Government consultation response, OSM-UK's voice will count for more than
that of J Random Nutcase, Charlbury. And, as you say, there will also be
cases where it's a matter of connecting people: for example, OSM-UK could
solve the map-in-UK-colours issue in a month by putting up a Kickstarter to
fund someone to develop it (openly-licensed, obviously), and with
crowdfunding there's nothing lost if it doesn't get funded.

Do you have an estimated date for when OSM-UK will be able to embark on its
first doing-something?

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Dave F]

On 03/01/2017 17:57, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

it would be good to actually get something tangible happening.


Indeed.
A business needs something to sell before you can go scouting for customers.

DaveF

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Richard,

The delay has been long to date (over a year I believe), but things should
move much quicker now. We could get something in for late February/March if
we act quickly.

As an aside, doing something tangible doesn't rely on the OSM UK company.
As noted it has taken over a year to get to that point, despite that we
(all those in the UK) have:

   - Ran quarterly projects on Schools, Healthcare, Farms and FHRS.
   - Seen the development of a number of tools to support these projects.
   - Mapped up and down the country.
   - Welcomed hundreds of new contributors.
   - Developed new styles and a static API (http://thunderforest.com)
   - Improved routing engines (http://cycle.travel/)
   - Produced maps for festivals (
   http://chris-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/a-map-in-app.html)
   - Shared our stories via blogs (http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.uk/ ,
   http://www.mappa-mercia.org/, http://blogs.openstreetmap.org/ and more)
   - Built on our relationship with Government and other organisations
   (e.g. http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2016/07/busy-days.html)
   - Attended global SotM and GIS events.
   - Continued to run numerous local mapping and meet-up events

And much more, including the amazing work many UK based folk do for the
global project, keeping the servers running, the blog active, and managing
data issues.

I'm aware of the "do-ocracy" but as above, I don't think OSM UK is needed
for these people (like yourself) who can take an idea and run with it. I'm
sure there are some great ideas out there from people who'd need support to
get them into reality. The OSM UK company can help to pair people with
ideas to people with the right skills to execute them.

If anyone is holding off from doing something just because the OSM UK
company is "coming", please don't. For one, you can make a great start
before OSM UK, but also there is no guarantee that OSM UK will work on your
specific idea.


*Rob*
p.s. Sorry for missing loads of great OSM contributions over the last year.
I should keep a record of these from now on!!
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Richard Fairhurst]

Rob Nickerson wrote:
> No, the first steps are to get people signed up as members (more 
> shortly when I have had a chance to speak with Gregory) and then 
> to host a first meeting.

I see your point and it's great that so much work has gone into pre-thinking
the incorporation and such like... but I'm with Steve on this one: it would
be good to actually get something tangible happening. Whether that's a
slippy map or a lobbying group or PR or a crowdfunded satellite or a statue
of Steve Coast/Andy Robinson/Steve Chilton in Trafalgar Square is not really
the issue. There's a lot of enthusiasm for OSM in the UK - let's capitalise
on it sooner rather than later.

> The intention is that we can discuss ideas of what to do at that
> meeting. I'm sure that there will be a wide range of ideas, many of which
> wouldn't have even crossed my mind at all.

Traditionally OSM works by empowering those with great ideas to act on those
great ideas, rather than by holding a long series of meetings to pre-plan
everything. Otherwise you end up with "50 people voted that we should do
!". "Great, which of them is actually doing it?" "Er..."

But you know all this. :) And well done for getting the paperwork sorted.

cheers
Richard




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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Rob Nickerson]

No, the first steps are to get people signed up as members (more shortly
when I have had a chance to speak with Gregory) and then to host a first
meeting. The intention is that we can discuss ideas of what to do at that
meeting. I'm sure that there will be a wide range of ideas, many of which
wouldn't have even crossed my mind at all.

It would also be good to get approval for the preferred bank account at
that first meeting. I have been doing research today. Unfortunatley the
bank that was recommended to us now charges a fee, so the top alternative
at the moment is probably the Coop:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Y9UgDUvcjoCXf5Q-rs5AGc2gZwlnmVvr3vRNlO2UNhs/edit?usp=sharing

Regards,
Rob

*Rob*

On 1 January 2017 at 15:58, Steve Doerr  wrote:

> Great. Thanks.
>
> Obviously the first priority is to get a UK-friendly slippy map up on the
> front page: blue motorways, green trunks, clear differentiation between A,
> B, C, and other roads, postcode and OSGR lookups, etc.
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 1 Jan 2017, at 13:38, Rob Nickerson  wrote:
>
> Basic template site now online:
>
> osmuk.org
>
> Best regards,
> *Rob*
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Steve Doerr]

Great. Thanks. 

Obviously the first priority is to get a UK-friendly slippy map up on the front 
page: blue motorways, green trunks, clear differentiation between A, B, C, and 
other roads, postcode and OSGR lookups, etc. 

Steve 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 1 Jan 2017, at 13:38, Rob Nickerson  wrote:
> 
> Basic template site now online:
> 
> osmuk.org
> 
> Best regards,
> Rob
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Shaun McDonald]

> On 1 Jul 2016, at 16:38, Dennis Bauszus  wrote:
> 
> I have setup a wordpress site.
> 
> http://osmuk.org/ 
> 
> Please drop me a mail if you want to become an editor and start posting or an 
> administrator and help with the general layout.

I can recommend the Divi WordPress Theme which allows extremely flexible 
layouts to be easily created all in the GUI. 
http://www.elegantthemes.com/gallery/divi/ 


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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Andrew Hain]

Christian Ledermann 
 writes:

> 
> I'd also like to see an aggregator like 
http://planetpython.org/ or
> http://planet.plone.org/
> to have a central place where all UK OSM 
related blogs are consolidated
> which could be integrated in the main 
website (see http://iwlearn.net/news)

Or like blogs.openstreetmap.org?

--
Andrew




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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Dave F]

Hi

To check, are editors able to create OSM slippy maps on this account? I 
believe there's a certain type of WP account that doesn't allow it.


Cheers
Dave F.

On 01/07/2016 16:38, Dennis Bauszus wrote:


I have setup a wordpress site.

http://osmuk.org/

Please drop me a mail if you want to become an editor and start 
posting or an administrator and help with the general layout.


Best,
Dennis



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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Dennis Bauszus]

On 01/07/2016 13:27, Christian Ledermann wrote:

I'd also like to see an aggregator like http://planetpython.org/ or
http://planet.plone.org/
to have a central place where all UK OSM related blogs are consolidated
which could be integrated in the main website (see http://iwlearn.net/news)

As an aside I've been developing websites (most of them with a strong community
background) for a living for over 10 years.


On 1 July 2016 at 13:12, Christian Ledermann
 wrote:

It very much depends what the focus of the website is and how it is
going to be used.
From a sysadmins point of view i am weary about wordpress (or joomla,
drupal) because
it requires constant vigilance to install the latest version and
patches, which are quite frequent
so the initial setup time becomes a moot point over the lifetime of a website.


Before I jump to conclusions which technology to suggest it would be
nice to gather requirements
so an informed decision can be made.


On 1 July 2016 at 11:43, Harry Wood  wrote:

I'm interested in helping out with an OSM UK website. I have a few ideas.

Actually the thing I'm most interested in is what you're touching on here. I'm 
keen to avoid a situation where we have a website festering unmaintained, or 
even just having niggling things wrong with it, and no way for me to 
pro-actively fix them.

Being easy to use, as an admin, is good...  however that doesn't help somebody 
who's not an admin. Given our large group of (quite a lot of tech savvy) UK 
OSmers, the contribution model of wordpress might feel a bit restrictive. In 
fact I've felt this frustration with some of the past SOTM websites. It's not 
so good for allowing the wider community to pro-actively fix a niggle.

I guess what I'm saying is... I'm happy with wordpress as long as I am one of 
the admins :-)

A git repo approach is quite a neat contribution model for this kind of thing. 
But yeah it's not as easy as editing wordpress. If Rob is going to be the most 
pro-active maintainer, and he's not comfortable with github, then that's 
certainly a problem with that idea.

I'm imagining an OSM UK website could be quite heavy on syndicated content. It 
could copy in and present these mailing list posts, the forum, and even have a 
chatroom (web->IRC). That would help keep it fresh, and relevant to our 
community with less onus on a restricted set of admin users (I think this idea is 
a thing we should do regardless of what the rest of the site is built with)

The key messages of the website will of course depend on the other discussion 
we're having here: What are the main goals and key messages of the OSM UK 
organisation/community?

Harry

From: Rob Nickerson 
To: dbaus...@gmail.com; Talk-GB 
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2016, 18:50
Subject: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site



Hi Dennis,

Don't worry about hosting issues when comparing the options. The group should 
probably get its own hosting anyway. The Mappa Mercia one is super easy to use 
and that's coming from somebody who is not techy at all.

To set up the wordpress account all that was needed was to sign in to Webfaction 
dashboard, select "add new application" and then click wordpress. Ta-da a fully 
functional wordpress installation! Since then we added an application for simple (static) 
pages. This is how we drive the maps on mappa-mercia.org.


Key things is that whatever we do it is easy to use. The old mappa-mercia site 
wasn't and we were dependent on one person. When he left the site died. 
Similarly the current state of the map website is github pages system and is 
too techie for me. This is frustrating as I now rely on one or two people to do 
the updates. You need the barrier to be low so that as many people as possible 
can be involved with keeping it maintained.



Rob

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--
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
https://github.com/cleder/


<*)))>{

If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.

1) Don’t drive species to extinction

2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.

3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.

}<(((*>






I have setup a wordpress site.

http://osmuk.org/

Please drop me a mail if you want to become an editor and start posting 
or an administrator and help with the general layout.


Best,
Dennis



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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Christian Ledermann]

I'd also like to see an aggregator like http://planetpython.org/ or
http://planet.plone.org/
to have a central place where all UK OSM related blogs are consolidated
which could be integrated in the main website (see http://iwlearn.net/news)

As an aside I've been developing websites (most of them with a strong community
background) for a living for over 10 years.


On 1 July 2016 at 13:12, Christian Ledermann
 wrote:
> It very much depends what the focus of the website is and how it is
> going to be used.
> From a sysadmins point of view i am weary about wordpress (or joomla,
> drupal) because
> it requires constant vigilance to install the latest version and
> patches, which are quite frequent
> so the initial setup time becomes a moot point over the lifetime of a website.
>
>
> Before I jump to conclusions which technology to suggest it would be
> nice to gather requirements
> so an informed decision can be made.
>
>
> On 1 July 2016 at 11:43, Harry Wood  wrote:
>> I'm interested in helping out with an OSM UK website. I have a few ideas.
>>
>> Actually the thing I'm most interested in is what you're touching on here. 
>> I'm keen to avoid a situation where we have a website festering 
>> unmaintained, or even just having niggling things wrong with it, and no way 
>> for me to pro-actively fix them.
>>
>> Being easy to use, as an admin, is good...  however that doesn't help 
>> somebody who's not an admin. Given our large group of (quite a lot of tech 
>> savvy) UK OSmers, the contribution model of wordpress might feel a bit 
>> restrictive. In fact I've felt this frustration with some of the past SOTM 
>> websites. It's not so good for allowing the wider community to pro-actively 
>> fix a niggle.
>>
>> I guess what I'm saying is... I'm happy with wordpress as long as I am one 
>> of the admins :-)
>>
>> A git repo approach is quite a neat contribution model for this kind of 
>> thing. But yeah it's not as easy as editing wordpress. If Rob is going to be 
>> the most pro-active maintainer, and he's not comfortable with github, then 
>> that's certainly a problem with that idea.
>>
>> I'm imagining an OSM UK website could be quite heavy on syndicated content. 
>> It could copy in and present these mailing list posts, the forum, and even 
>> have a chatroom (web->IRC). That would help keep it fresh, and relevant to 
>> our community with less onus on a restricted set of admin users (I think 
>> this idea is a thing we should do regardless of what the rest of the site is 
>> built with)
>>
>> The key messages of the website will of course depend on the other 
>> discussion we're having here: What are the main goals and key messages of 
>> the OSM UK organisation/community?
>>
>> Harry
>> 
>> From: Rob Nickerson 
>> To: dbaus...@gmail.com; Talk-GB 
>> Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2016, 18:50
>> Subject: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Dennis,
>>
>> Don't worry about hosting issues when comparing the options. The group 
>> should probably get its own hosting anyway. The Mappa Mercia one is super 
>> easy to use and that's coming from somebody who is not techy at all.
>>
>> To set up the wordpress account all that was needed was to sign in to 
>> Webfaction dashboard, select "add new application" and then click wordpress. 
>> Ta-da a fully functional wordpress installation! Since then we added an 
>> application for simple (static) pages. This is how we drive the maps on 
>> mappa-mercia.org.
>>
>>
>> Key things is that whatever we do it is easy to use. The old mappa-mercia 
>> site wasn't and we were dependent on one person. When he left the site died. 
>> Similarly the current state of the map website is github pages system and is 
>> too techie for me. This is frustrating as I now rely on one or two people to 
>> do the updates. You need the barrier to be low so that as many people as 
>> possible can be involved with keeping it maintained.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Christian Ledermann
>
> Newark-on-Trent - UK
> Mobile : +44 7474997517
>
> https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
> https://github.com/cleder/
>
>
> <*)))>{
>
> If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
> you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
> you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.
>
> 1) Don’t drive species to extinction
>
> 2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.
>
> 3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.
>
> }<(((*>



-- 
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianle

Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Christian Ledermann]

It very much depends what the focus of the website is and how it is
going to be used.
From a sysadmins point of view i am weary about wordpress (or joomla,
drupal) because
it requires constant vigilance to install the latest version and
patches, which are quite frequent
so the initial setup time becomes a moot point over the lifetime of a website.


Before I jump to conclusions which technology to suggest it would be
nice to gather requirements
so an informed decision can be made.


On 1 July 2016 at 11:43, Harry Wood  wrote:
> I'm interested in helping out with an OSM UK website. I have a few ideas.
>
> Actually the thing I'm most interested in is what you're touching on here. 
> I'm keen to avoid a situation where we have a website festering unmaintained, 
> or even just having niggling things wrong with it, and no way for me to 
> pro-actively fix them.
>
> Being easy to use, as an admin, is good...  however that doesn't help 
> somebody who's not an admin. Given our large group of (quite a lot of tech 
> savvy) UK OSmers, the contribution model of wordpress might feel a bit 
> restrictive. In fact I've felt this frustration with some of the past SOTM 
> websites. It's not so good for allowing the wider community to pro-actively 
> fix a niggle.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is... I'm happy with wordpress as long as I am one of 
> the admins :-)
>
> A git repo approach is quite a neat contribution model for this kind of 
> thing. But yeah it's not as easy as editing wordpress. If Rob is going to be 
> the most pro-active maintainer, and he's not comfortable with github, then 
> that's certainly a problem with that idea.
>
> I'm imagining an OSM UK website could be quite heavy on syndicated content. 
> It could copy in and present these mailing list posts, the forum, and even 
> have a chatroom (web->IRC). That would help keep it fresh, and relevant to 
> our community with less onus on a restricted set of admin users (I think this 
> idea is a thing we should do regardless of what the rest of the site is built 
> with)
>
> The key messages of the website will of course depend on the other discussion 
> we're having here: What are the main goals and key messages of the OSM UK 
> organisation/community?
>
> Harry
> 
> From: Rob Nickerson 
> To: dbaus...@gmail.com; Talk-GB 
> Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2016, 18:50
> Subject: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site
>
>
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> Don't worry about hosting issues when comparing the options. The group should 
> probably get its own hosting anyway. The Mappa Mercia one is super easy to 
> use and that's coming from somebody who is not techy at all.
>
> To set up the wordpress account all that was needed was to sign in to 
> Webfaction dashboard, select "add new application" and then click wordpress. 
> Ta-da a fully functional wordpress installation! Since then we added an 
> application for simple (static) pages. This is how we drive the maps on 
> mappa-mercia.org.
>
>
> Key things is that whatever we do it is easy to use. The old mappa-mercia 
> site wasn't and we were dependent on one person. When he left the site died. 
> Similarly the current state of the map website is github pages system and is 
> too techie for me. This is frustrating as I now rely on one or two people to 
> do the updates. You need the barrier to be low so that as many people as 
> possible can be involved with keeping it maintained.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
> ___
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> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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>
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-- 
Best Regards,

Christian Ledermann

Newark-on-Trent - UK
Mobile : +44 7474997517

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/christianledermann
https://github.com/cleder/


<*)))>{

If you save the living environment, the biodiversity that we have left,
you will also automatically save the physical environment, too. But If
you only save the physical environment, you will ultimately lose both.

1) Don’t drive species to extinction

2) Don’t destroy a habitat that species rely on.

3) Don’t change the climate in ways that will result in the above.

}<(((*>

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site

[Harry Wood]

I'm interested in helping out with an OSM UK website. I have a few ideas. 

Actually the thing I'm most interested in is what you're touching on here. I'm 
keen to avoid a situation where we have a website festering unmaintained, or 
even just having niggling things wrong with it, and no way for me to 
pro-actively fix them.

Being easy to use, as an admin, is good...  however that doesn't help somebody 
who's not an admin. Given our large group of (quite a lot of tech savvy) UK 
OSmers, the contribution model of wordpress might feel a bit restrictive. In 
fact I've felt this frustration with some of the past SOTM websites. It's not 
so good for allowing the wider community to pro-actively fix a niggle.

I guess what I'm saying is... I'm happy with wordpress as long as I am one of 
the admins :-)

A git repo approach is quite a neat contribution model for this kind of thing. 
But yeah it's not as easy as editing wordpress. If Rob is going to be the most 
pro-active maintainer, and he's not comfortable with github, then that's 
certainly a problem with that idea.

I'm imagining an OSM UK website could be quite heavy on syndicated content. It 
could copy in and present these mailing list posts, the forum, and even have a 
chatroom (web->IRC). That would help keep it fresh, and relevant to our 
community with less onus on a restricted set of admin users (I think this idea 
is a thing we should do regardless of what the rest of the site is built with)

The key messages of the website will of course depend on the other discussion 
we're having here: What are the main goals and key messages of the OSM UK 
organisation/community?

Harry

From: Rob Nickerson 
To: dbaus...@gmail.com; Talk-GB  
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2016, 18:50
Subject: [Talk-GB] OSM UK site



Hi Dennis,

Don't worry about hosting issues when comparing the options. The group should 
probably get its own hosting anyway. The Mappa Mercia one is super easy to use 
and that's coming from somebody who is not techy at all. 

To set up the wordpress account all that was needed was to sign in to 
Webfaction dashboard, select "add new application" and then click wordpress. 
Ta-da a fully functional wordpress installation! Since then we added an 
application for simple (static) pages. This is how we drive the maps on 
mappa-mercia.org.


Key things is that whatever we do it is easy to use. The old mappa-mercia site 
wasn't and we were dependent on one person. When he left the site died. 
Similarly the current state of the map website is github pages system and is 
too techie for me. This is frustrating as I now rely on one or two people to do 
the updates. You need the barrier to be low so that as many people as possible 
can be involved with keeping it maintained.



Rob

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