Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[Andy Robinson]

Like all good OSM activity, discussion occurred in the pub. We may or may not 
have got our knickers in a twist when we did but usually we get the things 
sorted out. The Naptan and tree updates were discussed at length within our 
small west mids group and I was (and am) happy to support. Brian has been doing 
a fantastic job working with local groups who have data and the last thing I 
would want to see is his efforts squashed. It's quite possible that some of 
what gets added is crap and its also possible we have some inappropriate tags, 
but let us get the stuff into OSM and we can sort it out where it's not 
perfect. As a local group we generally know what we are doing, we've been doing 
it now for over 10 years!

Cheers
Andy

-Original Message-
From: ajt1...@gmail.com [mailto:ajt1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 19 March 2017 13:13
To: talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org
Cc: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

On 19/03/2017 12:52, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 18 March 2017 at 18:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>
>> I'm off for a break and I'm leaving a couple of key imports partially 
>> complete so I thought it best to give you an update of where I'm at:
> I'm told that Brian has been blocked for these edits This is 
> outrageous.

No, he was sent this message:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1271

because it appeared that the link between changeset discussions and his email 
inbox was broken.

> There is clearly consensus for them in the local mapping community, 
> and a well-defined and transparent plan for the process has been 
> published.

That was one of the questions asked in changeset discussions - can you please 
link to where the "well-defined and transparent plan" for the "trees" import 
was published, and where discussion took place?

> A well-respected member of the community should not be treated this way.

No-one doubts that Brian is well-respected member of the OSM community - few if 
any have put in as much effort as him over the years.  
Unfortunately even well-respected community members can have email filters go 
rogue on them - it's not the first time that it's happened and I'm sure it 
won't be the last  :)

Best Regards,

Andy

(cc:ing talk@ because I know there's been discussion, including on IRC, outside 
the West Mids about the trees import and as similar sort of council work is 
being outsourced elsewhere, it's useful to discuss it more widely).




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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import process

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Chris,

To me the mess is with our wiki and mailing lists.

Over the years I've spent considerable time in both and i find them to be
death eaters that drain the energy from all ideas.

I have a more positive vision of local empowerment with a place for local
communities to share ideas with like minded communities and help each
other. That way the local communities who want to support this sort of work
can help each other to refine the processes, whereas local communities who
don't support this work can focus their energy on something that is
positive to them.

So yes, what seems arrogant to you, is to me a more positive world of local
empowerment.

Politics eh? You'll never get everyone to agree!

Rob
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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi Chris,

I don't think any of us are members of the import mailing list and I don't
see the point of joining any more mailing lists. They represent an arcane
20th century solution that allows a few negative comments to derail a
locally supported project.

Mailing list posts drift off topic way too easily any it's never clear when
"consensus" is found. Richard F did the right thing in 2013 when he quit
them and I encourage others to do the same

Few people replied to Brian's messages on the local list as we had already
discussed and agreed it. Thus for every negative email there are usually
many people who support it but just don't post.

Far from a bad import i think this is a great example to hold up as a good
case study. Who else would spend an hour a week in the data providers
office discussing not just the current data but methodologies for keeping
it up to date.

The new and old data is being consolidated as Brian mentioned in his post
yesterday. Everything is in hand, so no need to worry.

We are making huge strives forwards in the West Midlands and I'm looking
forward to Open Data becoming the norm as a result of Brian's hard work.

Rob

P.s. this is being done by the local community not OSM UK which is still
working up it's first project. As a fellow Director however I fully support
Brian. I'm glad we have set up OSM UK and I hope it can get involved in
similar projects where it is provided the devolved powers it needs to cater
for it's community rather than leaving those decisions to an unclear
"central power" that goes round in circles effectively preventing any new
ideas seeing the light of day.
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[Andy Mabbett]

"On 19 March 2017 at 13:13, ajt1...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On 19/03/2017 12:52, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>> I'm told that Brian has been blocked for these edits This is
>> outrageous.

> No, he was sent this message:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1271

Which opens with the words "brianboru blocked by SomeoneElse"

>> There is clearly consensus for them in the local mapping
>> community, and a well-defined and transparent plan for the process has
>> been published.

> That was one of the questions asked in changeset discussions - can you
> please link to where the "well-defined and transparent plan" for the "trees"
> import was published, and where discussion took place?

On the mailing list where I posted, for one.

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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[Rob Nickerson]

Hi,

This was discussed at our monthly meeting, it was then shared to the
appropriate local list [1] and a post about quality to Mappa Mercia blog
[2].

Brian has also been meeting with the data suppliers on a regular basis (at
times spending an hour a week with them) helping to develop a strategy.
Expert advise was also sought on the tree data.

So we have a data process that is supported by the local community, shared
publicly and covers a very small region. Our community is also well
established (10 years) and experienced to make these decisions.

My view is that appropriate steps have been taken. Anything more would have
been disproportionate any suggests a desire to have OSM centrally run
(which as we know is unrealistic).

Best,
Rob


[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb-westmidlands/2017-
March/002127.html
[2]
http://www.mappa-mercia.org/2017/03/massive-release-of-highways-asset-data-in-birmingham.html


On 19 Mar 2017 1:14 p.m., "ajt1...@gmail.com"  wrote:

> On 19/03/2017 12:52, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>
>> On 18 March 2017 at 18:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:
>>
>> I'm off for a break and I'm leaving a couple of key imports partially
>>> complete so I thought it best to give you an update of where I'm at:
>>>
>> I'm told that Brian has been blocked for these edits This is
>> outrageous.
>>
>
> No, he was sent this message:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1271
>
> because it appeared that the link between changeset discussions and his
> email inbox was broken.
>
> There is clearly consensus for them in the local mapping
>> community, and a well-defined and transparent plan for the process has
>> been published.
>>
>
> That was one of the questions asked in changeset discussions - can you
> please link to where the "well-defined and transparent plan" for the
> "trees" import was published, and where discussion took place?
>
> A well-respected member of the community should not be treated this way.
>>
>
> No-one doubts that Brian is well-respected member of the OSM community -
> few if any have put in as much effort as him over the years.  Unfortunately
> even well-respected community members can have email filters go rogue on
> them - it's not the first time that it's happened and I'm sure it won't be
> the last  :)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Andy
>
> (cc:ing talk@ because I know there's been discussion, including on IRC,
> outside the West Mids about the trees import and as similar sort of council
> work is being outsourced elsewhere, it's useful to discuss it more widely).
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 19/03/2017 12:52, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On 18 March 2017 at 18:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:


I'm off for a break and I'm leaving a couple of key imports partially
complete so I thought it best to give you an update of where I'm at:

I'm told that Brian has been blocked for these edits This is
outrageous.


No, he was sent this message:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/1271

because it appeared that the link between changeset discussions and his 
email inbox was broken.



There is clearly consensus for them in the local mapping
community, and a well-defined and transparent plan for the process has
been published.


That was one of the questions asked in changeset discussions - can you 
please link to where the "well-defined and transparent plan" for the 
"trees" import was published, and where discussion took place?



A well-respected member of the community should not be treated this way.


No-one doubts that Brian is well-respected member of the OSM community - 
few if any have put in as much effort as him over the years.  
Unfortunately even well-respected community members can have email 
filters go rogue on them - it's not the first time that it's happened 
and I'm sure it won't be the last  :)


Best Regards,

Andy

(cc:ing talk@ because I know there's been discussion, including on IRC, 
outside the West Mids about the trees import and as similar sort of 
council work is being outsourced elsewhere, it's useful to discuss it 
more widely).





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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Import Progress

[Andy Mabbett]

On 18 March 2017 at 18:52, Brian Prangle  wrote:

> I'm off for a break and I'm leaving a couple of key imports partially
> complete so I thought it best to give you an update of where I'm at:

I'm told that Brian has been blocked for these edits This is
outrageous. There is clearly consensus for them in the local mapping
community, and a well-defined and transparent plan for the process has
been published.

A well-respected member of the community should not be treated this way.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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