[OSM-talk-ie] weeklyOSM #343 07/02/2017-13/02/2017

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 343,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/8745/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM?
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
___
Talk-ie mailing list
Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Brian Hollinshead]

Re Exclave
try Kiltiernan in County Dublin in townlands.ie

and Kinnitty as CP, both enclaves belong to eslewhere external CPs

On 17 February 2017 at 16:03, Rory McCann  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 17/02/17 16:38, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> > Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and
> > Y", as it says on the wiki page. If it is "X or Y" then it should
> > be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It looks like Logainm treats "X
> > or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names have one ref tag. The
> > thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or Milebush" but in
> > OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis...
> > https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx
>
> OK, that sounds a little more complicated. I think I'll leave it alone
> then. We can always just find townlands with an "and" and without a
> logainm:ref and manually add them. Sometimes manually adding it is
> quicker than programming complicated rules.
>
> > It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :)
> > ) but I think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it.
> > Upper Bavaria is the south because it rises to the alps.  More
> > interestingly, up might be to the south? you go up towards Rome in
> > Irish?? More More interestingly, I hear that Irish is one of those
> > languages that has an in-built sense of direction, you wouldn't say
> > move over to the left, you would say move east or something
> > like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to the map.
>
> Usually "Upper" is upstream, and "lower" is downstream, near the mouth
> of the river. e.g. the Upper Rhine Plane is in south Germany, because
> that's near where the Rhine starts. So when you see "Upper X" that's
> usually more "upsteam" or something.
>
> > I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not
> > seen any like that so that's why I suggested to have two
> > townlands.
>
> I don't know if I've seen it with townlands. It's more common with
> Civil Parishes.
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpx69AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2a/EIAKwvRsri1/hodVTDoy936q8w
> nrJzEdDGpfTHU/7MyyNRfcqrtAfp41x+qgr13jTmGC3yGMraM9waj9UZLdj9h7WG
> u0zLX1Lb6DX3FfSsKkXI47N3/bTCqQ5ZqdzBmAfJzjypd9fSPkTwJDBNdoiBBgCx
> UepxqQqAXgAJ+3F957dT5EcXzoP1p4pVrPTI6HI6knXNnw1F9XeICXIWQPZva7+D
> p6lDedvEQHA3Iwk7s2i1UqAXvf/TDd5ZCnJ+IO9Qm92VFmJ/N2k4umWsnQbLdKJy
> WG3R3QqiccE4IajpcJbGjgKafXuuSpLQn/7hHi6pP0j+KaE7FTp5aAh2na0FZEQ=
> =GEzN
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
> ___
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
___
Talk-ie mailing list
Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Brian Tuffy]

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Rory McCann  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Some great, detailed advice here! 
>
> Townlands.ie shows how many objects have logainm:refs:
> https://www.townlands.ie/progress/#logainm It's currentlya botu 73% of
> townlands.
>
>
> On 17/02/17 14:51, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> > Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos': (A) Many townlands
> > have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or
> > Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is
> > commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the
> > other in the alt_name= tag.
>
> The logainm match up will only look at the name:en tag (or failing
> that the name) tag. It doesn't look at the alt_name (etc) tags.
> Perhaps it should. likewise it should split "X and Y" into "X" and "Y"
> and look at them.
>


Just to be clear, if it is "X and Y" you should treat it as "X and Y", as
it says on the wiki page.
If it is "X or Y" then it should be treated as "X" or "Y" in OSM but It
looks like Logainm treats "X or Y" as "X or Y" and so two townland names
have one ref tag. The thing is your script will look for "Lisnakirka or
Milebush" but in OSM it is name=Milebush and alt_name= Lis...
https://www.logainm.ie/35706.aspx



>
> > (B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We
> > don't have to add every variation but if you come across them, you
> > can add them. The idea is that if someone searches for a townland,
> > we want them to find it no matter what variation they use. The
> > example above is trivial for search but something like Inishmore
> > Vs. Inish More. Also consider, Upper/Lower, Island, More/Beg
> > Oughter/Eighter etc.
>
> The logainm script is aware of North/South/Upper/etc and will try to
> match based on that. It is able to tell that "X Upper" in Logainm is
> the same as "Upper X" in OSM (and vice versa etc).
>
> A few of these will be added to the logainm match up. I wasn't aware
> of them:


 My Irish is unfortunately terrible but
Oughter (butchered irish) = uachtar (Irish) = Upper or Southern (English)
Eighter = Íochtar = Lower or Northern

It confusses me why it is Lower or Northern (North is up right!! :) ) but I
think it might be lower in elevation possibly? I doubt it. Upper Bavaria is
the south because it rises to the alps.  More interestingly, up might be to
the south? you go up towards Rome in Irish?? More More interestingly, I
hear that Irish is one of those languages that has an in-built sense of
direction, you wouldn't say move over to the left, you would say move
east or something like that. I am not sure about it. Anyway, back to
the map.



>

> (C) Missing spaces can be valid names. e.g. Inishdeashmore =
> > Inishdeash-more = Inishdeash More
> >
> > (E) X Deme(ns)e and X Deme(sn)e. I suggest sticking to Deme(sn)e as
> > this is what is on the map source. (H) Apostrophes in names. I'm
> > getting a bit too in-depth here but I
> might
> > as well mention it. The old maps do not contain apostrophes in
> > names. "Georges Island", "Abbots Island". Some name tags are now
> > "George's
> Island"
> > etc. I suggest to keep "Georges Island" as an alt_name in this
> > case.
>
>
> > (G) Some townlands are named "Part of X" or "X (part of)". This
> > means it is a separate part of a nearby townland. Usually, you will
> > find an "X" townland nearby, that was split. I suggest we write the
> > name of these as "X (part of)".
>
> Are you sure about this? That would make 2 townlands, called "X" and
> "X (part of)". I thought if the map has a "X part of" displayed that
> it meant that little part was an exclave of the larger X townland, and
> I've been mapping them as such.
>

I agree with you that it should be mapped as an exclave. I have not seen
any like that so that's why I suggested to have two townlands.
If everyone is happy with it, I will also map the "part of" exclave with
the "X" townland. I will also amend my comments above when I put it up in a
wiki.

Thanks for the feedback!




> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpwntAAoJEOrWdmeZivv2FxoH/1GHOBmoLUMtsKQanmc9OhJC
> tYA1R/nLYXxenl7N3CXWxpFfpRrADb+G7SRZ6FC3YwABNOFudb3/4/QUh9T2zY00
> NICTF7gmp8k378zVr2RxreOxXb0Qz4kXCfg+4H8NzAuxgsfEihliegGmRYm+/A6e
> 2glvvD+8GAoQ9zZvJdqXkdtZvB5BtV213jiTDYRoXWVX9r8TlqI9OPULL1FQtii4
> LfP1s4oWKF5ma3Dip3VgyUvOCKWW/JaD5EGOZtT4uW8TnBKxEtWS/ahvoKInjyj6
> gSWGJOW1tVorHur8B/HXK/poAbPy91M2ttS5d2IhGQyr5nOe8l25Fhm+uaGvkJ8=
> =drU2
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
> ___
> Talk-ie mailing list
> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>
___
Talk-ie mailing list
Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Rory McCann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 16/02/17 20:38, Brian Tuffy wrote:
> I have a question about the logainm script, How can it handle a
> barony that crosses a county border? For example, Barony of Ross
> crosses the Galway-Mayo border as one relation. This relation has
> one logainm tag for Ross in Mayo (logainm:ref = 172) but there are
> separate loganim ref numbers for Ross in Galway (logainm:ref = 85)
> on the logainm website. Can we somehow add both ref numbers to the
> Barony relation? something like logainm:ref=172;85, or what do you
> suggest? It seems that the script assumes everything is nested
> inside counties but if baronies/civil parishes cross county
> borders, then they have two logainm ref numbers.
> 
> https://www.logainm.ie/en/85   Galway 
> https://www.logainm.ie/en/172 Mayo 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4128697

I'll have to think about what exactly the code does in that case and
get back to you. As you can see it has only assigned on logainm code.

In my mind logainm:ref=172;85 is the right answer, since this one OSM
object represents 2 objects in Logainm. You can also have one object
in Logainm which corresponds to 2 (or more) OSM objects.

The logainm import code will never change a logainm:ref value that's
there already. In accordance with long standing OSM convention, human
mapping is viewed as better than what the script does. If the logainm
script has done something wrong (like this case), then you can, and
should, correct OSM manually.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJYpw04AAoJEOrWdmeZivv2dDgH/Rn9w2Nn70duVvOD5oOXvzWb
2e/leRdDgjjCa2iB8rQ4XoFV74n4KubaM2uyilp4Ywkdzjpfai/udzieaijhuOlj
JQ9rb7nPnspHKCVnNRFABbds+AGpvvUoGWPgt27YgMZss3MokWN31EI+HE9NxHmV
I2RBFn7FfJ/Ime5C/tZOKKS2bLgtJ34zCIMNgvI8drfDDl+YEUsIfZDVRw+vDAan
mIvuVmuNHj5oDmDsCrYff7cyA2dRcHhePOE8y5rasIkN6TfpEsUCN6NxKVDWE6TA
RqhzuourVuDiV9pwqCejy/qtsmrwHdg6MZYMc8RNEnAsSXT5MMy5efovVwbRQ/o=
=L2XJ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Talk-ie mailing list
Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie

Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Typos in Townland names

[Brian Tuffy]

Today I hope to upload my list of typo changes for Mayo to OSM.
When Rory runs his Logainm script tomorrow, I hope that it will add more
logainm tags because of this, let's see. Most of the typos are just
alternative spellings, The list here are just the ones that I plan to
overwrite. There could be a valid local spelling of a name that I have
missed. I challenge you guys to check my "Typos" column for a valid
townland name spelling.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wobpofwXzLdkPyB8mjMT1sDMQuZiO
gebR4S94yvbzU4/edit?usp=sharing

I manually checked the names to make sure I am not overwriting valid names.
I learned a lot about the structure of the names, false positive (i.e. name
mismatches that are not typos but valid alternative spellings or
alternative name structure)... and so I wanted to share those with
everyone. I hope this will help others who attempt to correct typos, and
help those working on automating the process in the future.

My assumptions:
(1) I assume that the GSGS3906 1:25k War Office map sheets, are the
original source of townland names and the spellings are valid names.

(2) There can be multiple valid names for one townland. Valid name(s) can
be from: the map source, a structure variation (e.g. X East, East X, Upper
X Island West More, etc.), a local/commonly-used name (e.g. Bellavarry is
commonly written as Ballyvary, both are valid and so should not be
overwritten),

(3) With the correct spelling of townland names, the Logainm script should
be able to automatically add logainm tags. A lack of logainm tags is an
indication that something is up with the name. After the typos are fixed,
any remaining townlands without tags can be added manually. Islands are not
included, yet.


Guidelines:
(A) Make double sure that the typo is a mistake and not a valid alternative
name as I outline below.
(B) Try to keep the names where possible by adding alt_name, loc_name or
old_name tags.
(C) Try to keep consistent naming schemes. For example, If there is an "X
More Island", then also try to keep "X Beg Island" and not "Xbeg Island",
Its not always possible though, I would not create a new name just to be
consistent.
(D) Its sometimes ok to keep invalid names, if they are common spelling
errors and there is proof that it is in use. For example, "Srahcorick" gets
a few search hits. "Srahacorick" is the correct spelling but I recommend
not adding the alt_name in this example. An example where I would add an
alt_name is "Bohea", official correct spelling is "Boheh". Local names
often come from spelling mistakes that become popular.
(E) The name= tag is the one that is usually displayed/dominant. I suggest
that the order of "importance" for this is local name > other names. If
someone knows a local or commonly used name of a place, they should use
loc_name=, but often they just replace the name= tag. (This is all
debatable, which name tags to use? alt_name is for townlands that have 2
official names. I also use alt_name for valid spelling variations. name:en
may also be used etc.)


How to identify Typos:
(1) Compare the list of townlands to the openOSI and other sources. Logainm
(derived from OSI), local authorities, etc.
(2) Visually identify them in your area,
http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/os_opendata.html
(3) Missing Logainm tags indicate a name mismatch.
http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/townlands-missing-
logainm-data_83833#11/53.9650/-9.2107


How to check that the "typo" is a mistake:
(1) Check if it is an alternative spelling or alternative name. (see below)
(2) Check the map source.
(3) It may be obvious why the typo occurred. Is the mis-typed letter hard
to read?, blocked?, or a common mistake? (See common mistakes). This is
only an indication but it helps.
(4) If the name on the map source does not match any in the relation (even
as alt_name), this indicates that it was misspelled when first copied or
possibly overwritten.
(4) To check if it was overwritten, check the relation history on OSM, if
the name did not change at all, it is likely that it was misspelled when
first copied.
(5) Do a web search for the name (be sure it is the correct townland), if
there are lots (> 50 maybe) of webpage posts with that spelling, no matter
how wrong you think it is, it is likely a valid name spelling. Be aware
that some websites just use OSM data so there will always be a few hits.


Alternative names or 'typos that are not typos':
(A) Many townlands have two official names on the map source, "Ballindoo or
Doocastle". Both are valid, We should try to find out which one is
commonly-used/dominant and use that one in the name= tag and the other in
the alt_name= tag.

(B) A name structure variation is valid, "East X" = "X East". We don't have
to add every variation but if you come across them, you can add them. The
idea is that if someone searches for a townland, we want them to find it no
matter what variation they use. The example above is trivial for search but
something like Inishmore Vs. Inish