Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Philip Barnes]

On 23 June 2017 10:18:03 BST, Rory McCann  wrote:
>Another idea: Rather that hashing out what's a pub and what's a bar,
>why
>not use additional tags to narrow it down? There are suggestions for
>real_ale=yes/no, food=yes/no, microbrewrey=yes/no various ways to say
>"they sell this type of draught beer", real_fire=yes/no.
>
>If I see something tagged amenity=bar, real_fire=yes, food=no,
>drink:beer:Guinness=draught drink:cider:Bulmers=draught tv=no
>cocktails=no, then I know exactly what sort of place to expect!

Rory, I would tend to go with the customers v regulars approach. A pub is a 
part of a community and attracts loyalty. 

I'm not sure loud music can be used as a comparison, my local certainly has 
loud music on I open mic night or when there is a singer on. 

Phil, (trigpoint) 
>
>On 23/06/17 09:55, Alan Grant wrote:
>> Thanks all for the replies. I am inclined to agree with Rory, there
>seems
>> to be little point in worrying too much about establishments that do
>not
>> fall clearly into one or the other category. Either way the user of
>the map
>> will know that they are places that serve alcohol; beyond that there
>is a
>> wide range of individual characteristics (loud music or not? loud
>music at
>> certain time of the week? live or recorded music? proper food served
>from a
>> kitchen? emphasis on beer or wine or cocktails? open after midnight?
>> children allowed? dress code?) that can never be fully captured by a
>binary
>> bar/pub split.
>> 
>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:22, Rory McCann  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> For the differentiating rule is based on the osm-carto style choice.
>Is
>>> the normal drink there a pint? Then it's a pub. Is it a cocktail?
>Then it's
>>> a bar.
>>>
>>> Though it's not too important. In Hiberno-English the terms are used
>>> interchangibly. Perhaps in the UK with their brewery pubs and free
>houses
>>> it's different. The vast majority of the instances in Ireland are
>pubs, not
>>> bars (we love our pints).
>>>
>>> I don't think there's a clear, defined difference between bar & pub.
>There
>>> are edge cases in Ireland (and I think UK). So maybe tell the
>Spanish
>>> community that.
>>>
>>> Like many things in OSM, there are many right answers. :) We'll
>never get
>>> anything 100%.
>>>
>>> Rory
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22/06/17 14:50, Alan Grant wrote:
>>>
 Let me start by introducing myself as I have not posted on talk-ie
>before.
 I am Irish but live abroad and generally follow the Spanish
>(talk-es)
 mailing list.

 There is a rather intense debate taking place at the moment on
>talk-es (31
 posts and still going) about whether a typical Spanish
>neighbourhood bar
 should be tagged as amenity=bar, pub, or cafe. Some participants
>seem to
 assume that the bar-pub distinction is clearly defined in English
>(and
 specifically in the English OSM wiki) and that the issue is how to
>map
 that
 distinction to Spain.

 I am posting here because I wondered about whether Irish mappers do
>in
 fact
 think this distinction is well-defined and useful. It seems to me
>that in
 Ireland at least we often use "pub" and "bar" almost
>interchangeably -
 hence pub names such as "The Harbour Bar". Looking at the wiki some
>of the
 criteria seem rather vague or of doubtful relevance - should it
>matter to
 the definition of an amenity if the building that houses it happens
>to be
 modern or purpose-built? What about the suggestion that food is
>normally
 available in pubs - I seem to remember that when I was young many
>pubs
 served little more in the way of food than packets of crisps, does
>that
 mean they were then bars but have become pubs as they diversified
>into
 serving food to the lunchtime crowd?

   From taginfo the pub tag vastly outnumbers the bar tag in
>Ireland.
 Looking
 at places tagged as bar, many of them do not seem much different to
>their
 neighbours tagged as pubs as far as I can see.

 I suppose I am really asking out of curiosity rather than with any
 definite
 aim, but any thoughts would be welcome.

 Alan
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Bar v pub

[Philip Barnes]

On 22 June 2017 14:39:45 BST, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
>On 22 June 2017 at 13:50, Alan Grant  wrote:
>
>> Some participants seem to
>> assume that the bar-pub distinction is clearly defined in English
>(and
>> specifically in the English OSM wiki)
>
>I would say a pub has a live-in landlord, a bar does not. But I
>couldn't cite a source for that

I would say a bar has customers and a pub has regulars and is a place of 
community beyond being simply a business. Pubs attract loyalty and as such will 
be able to field teams in darts, dominoes, quiz and bowls leagues. Bars are 
also far less likely to serve real ales. 

Phil (trigpoint) 

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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] [Talk-GB] OSM with Wikidata: now covers UK and Ireland

[Philip Barnes]

On Thu Mar 10 21:48:45 2016 GMT, Colin Spiller wrote:
> Isle of Man conspicuous by its absence
The Isle of Man is neither part of the UK or Ireland 

Phil (trigpoint)

> 
> Edward Betts  wrote:
> 
> >I've extended my search for matches between OSM and Wikidata again. It now
> >covers all of the UK and Ireland.
> >
> >I used map data from http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/british-isles.html
> >
> >The results are grouped by region or county as well as by category.
> >
> >http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/gb-ie/
> >
> >I'm going to figure out how to upload these matches to OSM. I've registered 
> >an
> >account with the username Wikidata to use for the uploads.
> >
> >There will be one changeset per county + category for any category with 10 or
> >more matches in that county. Categories with less than 10 matches in the
> >county will be combined into a single changeset.
> >
> >OSM objects with an existing wikidata tag won't be changed.
> >-- 
> >Edward.
> >
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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] Tag for lay by

[Philip Barnes]

On Fri, 2015-02-27 at 13:33 +, Karl Newsletters wrote:
 Could I also suggest  highway=rest_area
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Drest_area if the area is
 meant to be used as a lay-by (e.g where you could pull in for a longer stop)
 
 If it is a bigger loop, i.e. they have straightened the road and just left
 a loop or ox-bow (inter cert geography -how are ye!). How about adding
 disused=yes to the usual  highway tag?

That would imply that the road is not accessible, whereas in reality
these become lay-bys, where you can park to go for a walk, a bike ride,
or just for a rest. I would tend to tag them as highway=service,
service=parking_aisle and mark them with either a parking node, or a
parking area if big enough. 

Phil (trigpoint)



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