Re: [Talk-in] Mumbai Brownfields
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:57 AM, Shekhar Krishnan shek...@mit.edu wrote: Here is a study I participated in several years ago on Housing Typologies in Mumbai: http://www.urban-age.net/0_downloads/House_Types_in_Mumbai.pdf Thanks Shekhar, that was a very useful report in understanding how these settlements came to be. Redevelopment is a highly political process, as is the meaning of the term slum, which is often used to indicate a desire to displace poor people and demolish their settlements. I don't believe our cartography should reflect the view of government or builders who seeks to clear and rebuild entire areas to favour certain classes. Slums encompass a wide spectrum and continuum of housing practices. Most such settlements require upgradation, better services, and in-situ development. That's a different debate. My view of squatter colonies is as a type of urban settlement. As a physical structure, they exist on the ground, they cover large areas of the city and are distinctly different in both its physical form and character from a planned layout. Marking them will help in better understanding the structure of the city and the relationships these settlements have with geographical features like water bodies, wetlands, transportation networks, access to govt services. No settlement in Mumbai is unregulated or unplanned, informal housing comes up in areas which are marked on plans for other purposes and are usurped by local officials and landowners/slumlords. They are highly regulated as far as water, sanitation, electricity and other services are concerned. Maps have their own ethics. I think we should all be careful that our desire for transparency does not end up making some people more vulnerable, by putting them on the map in the wrong way. That said, I'm very eager to map houses, markets, workshops, schools and temples in the wadis, koliwadas, gaothans, chawls of Mumbai. Maps are a tool to understand the earth, and we should keep it that way. In any case, my interest in the slums of Mumbai came out of curiosity on how these settlements have grown, where and why. If no one else sees any use of such areas on the osm server, i can easily move it to a separate layer for my personal use. just for reference, we did go on about this before :) http://www.mail-archive.com/talk-in@openstreetmap.org/msg01113.html -- j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Mumbai Brownfields
Arun: Shekhar, can you list out the different classes (official and non official) of such dense settlements which look like slums, what they are locally called and their description? These areas are of high interest to urban planners, govt bodies, NGO's etc and having them mapped appropriately will definitely be a lot of help to different parties. Here is a study I participated in several years ago on Housing Typologies in Mumbai: http://www.urban-age.net/0_downloads/House_Types_in_Mumbai.pdf I was hoping someone like you with better knowledge would bring this up and propose a more meaningful tag. Replacing tags does not require much effort. It's not about replacing tags, it's the logic of tracing something that looks contiguous from the bird's eye but is actually quite a mixed environment. These are not even common neighbourhoods where place=locality would be appropriate. Going by the wikipedia definition of brownfield land http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownfield_land, i did not think it was totally inappropriate either. Yes it is, brownfields are contaminated or former industrial sites which are either abandoned or slated for redevelopment. Urban mixed settlements in India are entirely unrelated. My interest is in 'slums' which have unregulated and unplanned developments (and have been marked by the government for rehabilitation, clearing and redevelopment). Redevelopment is a highly political process, as is the meaning of the term slum, which is often used to indicate a desire to displace poor people and demolish their settlements. I don't believe our cartography should reflect the view of government or builders who seeks to clear and rebuild entire areas to favour certain classes. Slums encompass a wide spectrum and continuum of housing practices. Most such settlements require upgradation, better services, and in-situ development. That's a different debate. No settlement in Mumbai is unregulated or unplanned, informal housing comes up in areas which are marked on plans for other purposes and are usurped by local officials and landowners/slumlords. They are highly regulated as far as water, sanitation, electricity and other services are concerned. Maps have their own ethics. I think we should all be careful that our desire for transparency does not end up making some people more vulnerable, by putting them on the map in the wrong way. That said, I'm very eager to map houses, markets, workshops, schools and temples in the wadis, koliwadas, gaothans, chawls of Mumbai. Best, Shekhar On 08/03/2011 03:03 PM, Arun Ganesh wrote: On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Shekhar Krishnan shek...@mit.edu mailto:shek...@mit.edu wrote: All: I noticed activity in Mumbai recently by Arun Ganesh (PlaneMad) where a lot of landuse:brownfield areas are being traced around various villages, koliwadas, wadis, slums and mixed-use and industrial settlements. I know there was some earlier discussion of how to tag so-called slums but brownfield is certainly not appropriate, see the tag which is land scheduled for new development http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbrownfield It seems that this tag is being used indiscriminately across any cluster in Mumbai which appear dense, this covers a wide spectrum of settlements that all look the same from a satellite image. Hi Shekhar, I wanted to do an analysis of how much area such settlements cover and was tracing the boundaries of these areas. Since there isn't any agreed convention, i just continued what an earlier user had done in south mumbai. -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGaneshhttp://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in -- Shekhar Krishnan 58/58A, Anand Bhavan 201, T.H. Kataria Marg (Lady Hardinge Road) Matunga (West), Mumbai 400016, India http://heptanesia.net http://web.mit.edu/shekhar ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
[Talk-in] Mumbai Brownfields
All: I noticed activity in Mumbai recently by Arun Ganesh (PlaneMad) where a lot of landuse:brownfield areas are being traced around various villages, koliwadas, wadis, slums and mixed-use and industrial settlements. I know there was some earlier discussion of how to tag so-called slums but brownfield is certainly not appropriate, see the tag which is land scheduled for new development http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbrownfield It seems that this tag is being used indiscriminately across any cluster in Mumbai which appear dense, this covers a wide spectrum of settlements that all look the same from a satellite image. While I am always happy to see more people helping map Mumbai -- there are only a handful of us -- I'm opposed in principle to tagging dense areas inhabited by 60% of the population as brownfield. Best, S.K. -- Shekhar Krishnan 58/58A, Anand Bhavan 201, T.H. Kataria Marg (Lady Hardinge Road) Matunga (West), Mumbai 400016, India http://heptanesia.net http://web.mit.edu/shekhar ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
Re: [Talk-in] Mumbai Brownfields
On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Shekhar Krishnan shek...@mit.edu wrote: All: I noticed activity in Mumbai recently by Arun Ganesh (PlaneMad) where a lot of landuse:brownfield areas are being traced around various villages, koliwadas, wadis, slums and mixed-use and industrial settlements. I know there was some earlier discussion of how to tag so-called slums but brownfield is certainly not appropriate, see the tag which is land scheduled for new development http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:landuse%3Dbrownfield It seems that this tag is being used indiscriminately across any cluster in Mumbai which appear dense, this covers a wide spectrum of settlements that all look the same from a satellite image. Hi Shekhar, I wanted to do an analysis of how much area such settlements cover and was tracing the boundaries of these areas. Since there isn't any agreed convention, i just continued what an earlier user had done in south mumbai. I was hoping someone like you with better knowledge would bring this up and propose a more meaningful tag. Replacing tags does not require much effort. Going by the wikipedia definition of brownfield landhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownfield_land, i did not think it was totally inappropriate either. My interest is in 'slums' which have unregulated and unplanned developments (and have been marked by the government for rehabilitation, clearing and redevelopment). Shekhar, can you list out the different classes (official and non official) of such dense settlements which look like slums, what they are locally called and their description? These areas are of high interest to urban planners, govt bodies, NGO's etc and having them mapped appropriately will definitely be a lot of help to different parties. -- j.mp/ArunGanesh http://j.mp/ArunGanesh ___ Talk-in mailing list Talk-in@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-in
