Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Hey Alright, so from the responses I got here, I detected a tendency to say that the quest type should be disabled in Italy, so I will do this for the next version of StreetComplete. As far as I understood, the other thread (Nomi delle strade e numeri civici) was rather about the address on POIs of amenities/shops etc. Cheers Tobias On 12/07/2018 20:33, Tobias Zwick wrote: > Hey there > > Since early 2017 till now, users of my app StreetComplete have been > adding house numbers to buildings. > Should I disable this functionality for Italy? > > For buildings of certain types, such as "apartments" or "house"s etc. > (but not "yes"), which do neither have an address tagged, nor have any > node on or in their outline with an address tagged, nor are in any area > that has an address tagged, the app shows a pin on the map, like this: > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/master/fastlane/metadata/android/en/images/phoneScreenshots/screenshot8.png > > This pin is shown to every user of the app, until it is solved. To solve > it, the user taps on the pin and can input the housenumber for the > building in the form that pops up then. The user can also answer that > the building has no housenumber, in which case the app tags noaddress=yes. > > Cheers > Tobias > > - > > Addresses in Italy are described here in the wiki: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Addresses#Regole_specifiche_per_l.27Italia > > A related discussion on talk-it is archived here: > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2018-January/061775.html > > ___ > Talk-it mailing list > Talk-it@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it > ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Hi Tobias, I agree with the above comments, ideally housenumbers should be represented by a node, it is way too common having a building with more than one entrance and multiple numbers. In any case, you should consider adding addr:street tag as well, which your app seems to ignore until now: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/572879681/history Cheers Alecs -- Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Il ven 13 lug 2018, 23:04 Tobias Zwick ha scritto: > Certainly, StreetComplete can be very useful in filling the white spots > regarding addresses in Italy, and it is true that as OSM is a > collaborative project, other mappers can later separate the address from > the building outline and put it on the entrance(s) to make it conform to > the guidelines. > I strongly agree with the "progressive" approach in which some put data and later others refine it, but here we are talking about a complex situation. There are several towns in Italy that after imports or good local work have a complete mapping of house numbers on separate nodes while others completely miss them. In both cases looking only at missing tags in buildings will lead to a false perception of the situation, because also the well mapped towns will appear as "white spots" to be filled. What would happen if some StreetComplete users start filling the gaps where all the house numbers are already mapped? I really understand the value of your app, but we are back to step zero: as long as the current rules are in place I think that it could be risky to let people map in the way you propose. I would in any case suggest to wait some more time to let the community further discuss about the topic. Ciao ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Hmm, I was hoping for a more definite answer than what I got from this thread so far. I will give you some more input. Regarding the ideas expressed so far: Adding a node within the building with the housenumber is not possible, because StreetComplete can only change the tags of an element, neither add, delete or change the geometry of elements - but it doesn't matter really if there is a node with an address within the building with a fixme-tag or the address is just on the building: It requires cleanup to conform to the Italian address guidelines in either case. Also, a detection whether a housenumber is "nearby" specifically for Italy is also something I will not do, because such a detection would be too fuzzy to be reliable. But it needs to be reliable. Finally, regarding the idea to let StreetComplete ask for the addresses on gates and entrances instead of buildings in Italy, that would create lots of false-positives (not every gate or entrance has an address). I think if the building is already mapped in such a detail that the entrances are also mapped, someone must have been there to survey it and then he will have also specified the housenumber (if that entrance has one). To summarize, I see no chance how StreetComplete, or for that matter, any automatic algorithm, would be able to automatically determine where and which housenumbers are missing on the map, when housenumbers are mapped on plot boundaries instead of always on, in or at the entrances of buildings. --- Certainly, StreetComplete can be very useful in filling the white spots regarding addresses in Italy, and it is true that as OSM is a collaborative project, other mappers can later separate the address from the building outline and put it on the entrance(s) to make it conform to the guidelines. Also, most (inner-)town buildings will have their address on the entrances and many buildings just have one entrance, so there is no problem. However, you also have to consider that StreetComplete will definitely be a disruption in areas where the address is commonly (mapped) at the gates leading to the properties (=outside the building outline). In these areas, the buildings may be spammed with either duplicate housenumbers or noaddress=yes tags. Worse still, if you clean up the duplicated nodes after a StreetComplete user added them, they may appear again later, when another user adds them again, and so on. So, you have to weigh the these up against each other and decide. Anyway, thank you for the praise :-) Tobias On 13/07/2018 10:55, mbranco wrote: > I think that it should be fine if your app could put a node inside the > building (at the center?) with the housenumber, and maybe with a fixme "move > me at at the access of this building". > Being OSM a collaborative project which works with subsequent refinements, > someone later could set the exact position. > > But I'm afraid that it's not easy to detect if the housenumber is already > set (is already there a node "near or inside" the building with the > housenumber?) > > P.S. However, thank you Tobias for your great app, I think it's a valuable > tool to bring newbies to OSM. > > > > -- > Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html > > ___ > Talk-it mailing list > Talk-it@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it > ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
I think that it should be fine if your app could put a node inside the building (at the center?) with the housenumber, and maybe with a fixme "move me at at the access of this building". Being OSM a collaborative project which works with subsequent refinements, someone later could set the exact position. But I'm afraid that it's not easy to detect if the housenumber is already set (is already there a node "near or inside" the building with the housenumber?) P.S. However, thank you Tobias for your great app, I think it's a valuable tool to bring newbies to OSM. -- Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
sent from a phone > On 12. Jul 2018, at 20:33, Tobias Zwick wrote: > > Since early 2017 till now, users of my app StreetComplete have been > adding house numbers to buildings. > Should I disable this functionality for Italy? I you could invite people to add addresses to entrances and gates and barrier=entrance (where applying), it would be great. For buildings I would say it is ok as long as the address applies to the whole polygon (usually means buildings with only one access from the public land). For example I know an office in an apartment building, it is inside a garden. The access road to the garage has number 10, the gate which leads to the footway to the building has 8, another gate which leads to the garden has 6. The office does not use the main entrance of the building (the access is through the garden) but it has the same house number and a postbox together with the apartment. For me it would be ok to have the 8 tagged as addr housenumber on the building (because it is a property of all tenants), as well as at the gate (because it applies to this point). But I guess this is a situation more unusual than not, at least for commercial use. Ciao, Martin ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Il giorno gio 12 lug 2018 alle ore 20:34 Tobias Zwick ha scritto: > Hey there > > Since early 2017 till now, users of my app StreetComplete have been > adding house numbers to buildings. > Should I disable this functionality for Italy? > > Hi Tobias and thanks for posting this question. I think that you are referring to the Italian guideline that specifically forbids to put "house numbers" on building polygons. This is because in Italy the "house numbers" are actually access identifiers unlike in other countries where they identify the building itself. Given that I think that the answer to your question should be "yes" . In any case I would wait further contributions to this thread since the above approach, even if accepted by the Italian community, was subject to some criticism. Ciao ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Should StreetComplete stop adding addresses in Italy?
Hey there Since early 2017 till now, users of my app StreetComplete have been adding house numbers to buildings. Should I disable this functionality for Italy? For buildings of certain types, such as "apartments" or "house"s etc. (but not "yes"), which do neither have an address tagged, nor have any node on or in their outline with an address tagged, nor are in any area that has an address tagged, the app shows a pin on the map, like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/master/fastlane/metadata/android/en/images/phoneScreenshots/screenshot8.png This pin is shown to every user of the app, until it is solved. To solve it, the user taps on the pin and can input the housenumber for the building in the form that pops up then. The user can also answer that the building has no housenumber, in which case the app tags noaddress=yes. Cheers Tobias - Addresses in Italy are described here in the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:Addresses#Regole_specifiche_per_l.27Italia A related discussion on talk-it is archived here: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2018-January/061775.html ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
