Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
Hello Arianit, I do not see anyone bringing extreme nationalism to the discussion, as a matter of fact the proposal was exactly that: on-the-ground situation. As our colleague said, we're not politicians and thats not our concern. However, the solution needs to be within some legal framework so that the work that we do is defendable against the wide audience and further scrutiny. Name:sr and Name:sq tags should be used in all cases, and the Name should be set to either one of these based on the ground situation and ethnic majority on the ground. As far as I understand this is what has been agreed and understood to be a good, proper, stable solution? We can setup a committee if it is really necessary that will monitor the changes to the toponyms and judge whether it is indeed according to the situation on the ground or not. BR//Dragutin On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Arianit Dobroshi wrote: > Gentlemen, > > Quit bringing your extreme nationalism to the discussion. The map > should be useful to the local people. There are two official languages > in Kosovo, Albanian and Serbian. Other languages can be used locally > when at least 5% of the population uses them. > > I hope you stick to this. > > Regards from Kosovo, > Arianit > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Dragutin Cvetkovic > wrote: >> Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, >> of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. >> If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such >> Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have >> better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. >> >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont >> wrote: >>> Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been >>> able to figure this out yet. >>> >>> there is a user : >>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits >>> >>> who is busy changing all the names: >>> Serbs live there => Serb naming >>> >>> what do do about this? >>> mike >>> >>> -- >>> James Michael DuPont >>> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org >>> >>> ___ >>> Talk-rs mailing list >>> talk...@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs > > ___ > Talk-rs mailing list > talk...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
Gentlemen, Quit bringing your extreme nationalism to the discussion. The map should be useful to the local people. There are two official languages in Kosovo, Albanian and Serbian. Other languages can be used locally when at least 5% of the population uses them. I hope you stick to this. Regards from Kosovo, Arianit On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Dragutin Cvetkovic wrote: > Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, > of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. > If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such > Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have > better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont > wrote: >> Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been >> able to figure this out yet. >> >> there is a user : >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits >> >> who is busy changing all the names: >> Serbs live there => Serb naming >> >> what do do about this? >> mike >> >> -- >> James Michael DuPont >> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org >> >> ___ >> Talk-rs mailing list >> talk...@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Mike Dupont wrote: > Well, I am personally going to just give up on the serbian enclaves > (and serbian dominated northern kosovo) and invoke the > Map on the ground rule. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule > > In those places that the Republic of Kosovo Gov has installed new > multilingual signs, those areas we will continue to map as such. In > those areas where they still have the old signs and the people > consider themselves part of serbia, there is no point in giving them a > different name. Our job as mappers is not to change the world, but to > map it as it is. This makes sense for the main 'name' key. Ideally all places should also have both 'name:sr' and 'name:sq' tags. (I personally think that the 'name' key without the context of the language is ill conceived for other reasons anyway, but that's another discussion altogether.) > About the border, I think that people need to stop messing with the > admin levels, leave them as level 2. I have brought this up with the > DWG. but if you cannot stop yourselves, at least pick a level and not > randomly change it between 3 and 4. I thought OSM rules were pretty clear on the admin level here too [1]: "There is some controversy about what is the exact meaning of country. For the sake of clarity, only political entities listed on the ISO 3166 standard are to be considered countries." Ergo, a good compromise IMHO is level 3. But I agree with Dragutin, not much point in reasoning with trolls changing stuff back and forth, so it's good having a third party moderate the changes. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:admin_level#National ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
*shrugs* As far as I am concerned its under UNMIK governance as far as UN1244 goes, self proclaimed independence has little effect until its officially recognized in the UN. Whatever admin level is appropriate should be used. Its not a republic, its not a region, maybe a "province" level would be a good middle ground. On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Mike Dupont wrote: > Well, I am personally going to just give up on the serbian enclaves > (and serbian dominated northern kosovo) and invoke the > Map on the ground rule. > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule > > In those places that the Republic of Kosovo Gov has installed new > multilingual signs, those areas we will continue to map as such. In > those areas where they still have the old signs and the people > consider themselves part of serbia, there is no point in giving them a > different name. Our job as mappers is not to change the world, but to > map it as it is. > > About the border, I think that people need to stop messing with the > admin levels, leave them as level 2. I have brought this up with the > DWG. but if you cannot stop yourselves, at least pick a level and not > randomly change it between 3 and 4. > > thanks, > mike > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Dragutin Cvetkovic > wrote: >> Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, >> of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. >> If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such >> Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have >> better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. >> >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont >> wrote: >>> Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been >>> able to figure this out yet. >>> >>> there is a user : >>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits >>> >>> who is busy changing all the names: >>> Serbs live there => Serb naming >>> >>> what do do about this? >>> mike >>> >>> -- >>> James Michael DuPont >>> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org >>> >>> ___ >>> Talk-rs mailing list >>> talk...@openstreetmap.org >>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs > > > > -- > James Michael DuPont > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont wrote: > Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been > able to figure this out yet. > > there is a user : > http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits > > who is busy changing all the names: > Serbs live there => Serb naming > > what do do about this? > mike > > -- > James Michael DuPont > Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org > > ___ > Talk-rs mailing list > talk...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
Re: [Talk-kosovo] [OpenStreetMap Serbia] Naming issues in kosovo
Well, I am personally going to just give up on the serbian enclaves (and serbian dominated northern kosovo) and invoke the Map on the ground rule. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule In those places that the Republic of Kosovo Gov has installed new multilingual signs, those areas we will continue to map as such. In those areas where they still have the old signs and the people consider themselves part of serbia, there is no point in giving them a different name. Our job as mappers is not to change the world, but to map it as it is. About the border, I think that people need to stop messing with the admin levels, leave them as level 2. I have brought this up with the DWG. but if you cannot stop yourselves, at least pick a level and not randomly change it between 3 and 4. thanks, mike On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Dragutin Cvetkovic wrote: > Nothing, Kosovo territory is under dispute, as we are all very aware, > of, ergo, this is in line of the OSM policy. > If you ask me, UN1244 is pretty clear on this matter and as such > Serbian should be primary anyway on all toponyms... But I guess I have > better things to do in my life then go against professional trolls. > > On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 8:07 AM, Mike Dupont > wrote: >> Just a heads up, I have tried to write to the dwg, but I have not been >> able to figure this out yet. >> >> there is a user : >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SkyBon/edits >> >> who is busy changing all the names: >> Serbs live there => Serb naming >> >> what do do about this? >> mike >> >> -- >> James Michael DuPont >> Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org >> >> ___ >> Talk-rs mailing list >> talk...@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-rs -- James Michael DuPont Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org ___ Talk-kosovo mailing list Talk-kosovo@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-kosovo
