Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying from GMaps

2021-07-02 Thread Timeo Gut 
It's nice to at least finally hear some explanations from their side. 
But it does not really solve any of the issues.


Having the same establishments and landmarks is not problematic per se, 
but there seems to be solid evidence that their hired third-party is (at 
the very least partially) providing them with POIs copied from Google Maps.


Just as an example, here's a identical arbitrarily capitalized name in 
the same arbitrary location:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8873689562
https://goo.gl/maps/QzyJqMRShrnCn1vh8

Jan Rei Gallardo's edits are a significant improvement compared to the 
previous para mappers. He seems to at least make sure to place nodes 
within buildings and add proper tags, this makes it much more difficult 
to verify if all of the data or just part of it is copied.


Para mappers in Davao Region (Abby Oavad Tagum, Dhadz and ortegajovan41) 
were a lot less careful. Out of about 30 analyzed POIs every single one 
is obviously copied from Google.


Shop without tags with identical wrong coordinates:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8357629670
https://goo.gl/maps/qkXyyCtMoWkQR5qaA

Non-existent office in the middle of road:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8654016808
https://goo.gl/maps/iZ3LvvWKB2fbnHEx5

Same wrong location, school within existing school:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/773674277
https://goo.gl/maps/hvDMT5ofVRfUUAtc9

Church and mosque within same building:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367729778
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8367763632
https://goo.gl/maps/SyhwJRQWE6Nw7yd86
https://goo.gl/maps/HHB8JMJoAXjGYaoC8

I'm also curious what the edits in Nigeria are about. Jan Rei Gallardo 
is already the third para mapper (out of the 6 that were identified so 
far) that is editing in Enugu Area.




On 2021-07-02 15:02, Erwin Olario wrote:
CC'ing the list of their latest response: https://imgur.com/ml0IR2e 



We hire third-parties who are from the area being mapped to tag
the location of establishments, landmarks, and other government
offices. They will send to us the coordinates and the names of the
places, and will be encoded accordingly by a third-party.

The chances of having the same establishments, landmarks, and
government offices on the same location as Google is for the basic
reason that we are mapping the same areas on planet Earth. Unless,
Google mapped an alternate universe that would result in different
mapping of the same locality.

FWIW, I previously invited them to engage with the LoCo through an 
online meeting, but instead got this response.


FYI.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

»email:erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz* 


»mobile: https://t.me/GOwin 
»OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93 D56B


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:19 PM Jherome Miguel 
mailto:jheromemig...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Sorry, dapat send to all.

-- Forwarded message -
From: *Jherome Miguel* mailto:jheromemig...@gmail.com>>
Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying
from GMaps
To: Erwin Olario mailto:gov...@gmail.com>>


Naghihintay pa ako ng reply sa huli kong PM with Jan Rei. Sana may
linaw na ang kaso nung kay JP Baje, kung member sya ng PARA
mapping team. Di ko maiwasang mapa-PI at map-lk nang nakita ko
ang mga edits ni Jan Rei. Salamat na we have now a direct contact
with a PARA map editor.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 9:59 PM Erwin Olario mailto:gov...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Sa palagay ko, ang pinaka-maganda ay makapag-setup ng dialogue
sa grupong (?) ito, para matulungan silang malinawan sa mga
alituntunin ng OSM, kung yun nga talaga ang isyu dito.

Sumagot ulit yung user na kausap ko, at sinasabi niyang hindi
daw kinopya sa ibang mapa yung mga edits niya, at kinalap daw
niya yon sa ibang sources. Hiniling kong mag-bigay siya ng
karagdagan pang detalye sa proseso nila.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
»email:erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*

»mobile: https://t.me/GOwin 
»OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4
81CE 3A93 D56B


On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:39 AM Jherome Miguel
mailto:jheromemig...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Kinakausap ko na rin ang user kung kilala rin niya yung si
“JPBaje”. Lumalakas ang kutob ko na editor rin sya for
PARA, lalo’t hindi siya nag-reply sa una kong mga PM sa
kanya bago nirevert ang lahat ng edits niya at siya’y
binlock ng DWG.

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:40 PM Erwin Olario
mailto:gov...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I also got a reply, and the username[0] has been

Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying from GMaps

2021-07-02 Thread Erwin Olario 
Yeah, that's possibly an option to consider.

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021, 20:42 Glen Scott  wrote:

> Wow, is this the problem of OSM where there needs to be an element of
> trust. Perhaps find a blatantly incorrect POI and compare?
>
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 18:06, Erwin Olario  wrote:
>
>> CC'ing the list of their latest response: https://imgur.com/ml0IR2e
>>
>> We hire third-parties who are from the area being mapped to tag the
>>> location of establishments, landmarks, and other government offices. They
>>> will send to us the coordinates and the names of the places, and will be
>>> encoded accordingly by a third-party.
>>>
>>> The chances of having the same establishments, landmarks, and government
>>> offices on the same location as Google is for the basic reason that we are
>>> mapping the same areas on planet Earth. Unless, Google mapped an alternate
>>> universe that would result in different mapping of the same locality.
>>>
>> FWIW, I previously invited them to engage with the LoCo through an online
>> meeting, but instead got this response.
>>
>> FYI.
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
>> 
>> » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
>> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
>> D56B
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:19 PM Jherome Miguel 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, dapat send to all.
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: Jherome Miguel 
>>> Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying from
>>> GMaps
>>> To: Erwin Olario 
>>>
>>>
>>> Naghihintay pa ako ng reply sa huli kong PM with Jan Rei. Sana may linaw
>>> na ang kaso nung kay JP Baje, kung member sya ng PARA mapping team. Di ko
>>> maiwasang mapa-PI at map-lk nang nakita ko ang mga edits ni Jan Rei.
>>> Salamat na we have now a direct contact with a PARA map editor.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 9:59 PM Erwin Olario  wrote:
>>>
 Sa palagay ko, ang pinaka-maganda ay makapag-setup ng dialogue sa
 grupong (?) ito, para matulungan silang malinawan sa mga alituntunin ng
 OSM, kung yun nga talaga ang isyu dito.

 Sumagot ulit yung user na kausap ko, at sinasabi niyang hindi daw
 kinopya sa ibang mapa yung mga edits niya, at kinalap daw niya yon sa ibang
 sources. Hiniling kong mag-bigay siya ng karagdagan pang detalye sa proseso
 nila.

 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
 
 » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
 » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
 D56B


 On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:39 AM Jherome Miguel 
 wrote:

> Kinakausap ko na rin ang user kung kilala rin niya yung si “JPBaje”.
> Lumalakas ang kutob ko na editor rin sya for PARA, lalo’t hindi siya
> nag-reply sa una kong mga PM sa kanya bago nirevert ang lahat ng edits 
> niya
> at siya’y binlock ng DWG.
>
> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:40 PM Erwin Olario  wrote:
>
>> I also got a reply, and the username[0] has been changed.
>>
>> The user acknowledged their affiliation with the Para app, but did
>> not disclose the source of their edits.
>>
>> I have previously been in touch with officers from this corporation,
>> and in the past, they promised that they will abide by OSM rules.  If you
>> get any permission to share that number, I'm willing to discuss this
>> further with their users
>>
>> [0]:
>> https://osmcha.org/filters?aoi=68b0b447-b692-47cd-ac6d-7be521e084b4
>>
>>
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
>> 
>> » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
>> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE
>> 3A93 D56B
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 10:07 AM Jherome Miguel <
>> jheromemig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message -
>>> From: Jherome Miguel 
>>> Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:04 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Another user possibly illegal copying from GMaps
>>> To: Eugene Alvin Villar 
>>>
>>>
>>> Just received reply (in Tagalog) from user, asking me to contact by
>>> phone, but as I’m in Canada, could discuss it on-site instead. I’m in a
>>> middle of a mass revert of edits around BF Homes when I received their 
>>> PM.
>>>
>> ___
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>
>> ___
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
 ___
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>>

Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying from GMaps

2021-07-02 Thread Glen Scott 
Wow, is this the problem of OSM where there needs to be an element of
trust. Perhaps find a blatantly incorrect POI and compare?

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 18:06, Erwin Olario  wrote:

> CC'ing the list of their latest response: https://imgur.com/ml0IR2e
>
> We hire third-parties who are from the area being mapped to tag the
>> location of establishments, landmarks, and other government offices. They
>> will send to us the coordinates and the names of the places, and will be
>> encoded accordingly by a third-party.
>>
>> The chances of having the same establishments, landmarks, and government
>> offices on the same location as Google is for the basic reason that we are
>> mapping the same areas on planet Earth. Unless, Google mapped an alternate
>> universe that would result in different mapping of the same locality.
>>
> FWIW, I previously invited them to engage with the LoCo through an online
> meeting, but instead got this response.
>
> FYI.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
> 
> » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
> D56B
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 12:19 PM Jherome Miguel 
> wrote:
>
>> Sorry, dapat send to all.
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Jherome Miguel 
>> Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:06 PM
>> Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: Another user possibly illegal copying from
>> GMaps
>> To: Erwin Olario 
>>
>>
>> Naghihintay pa ako ng reply sa huli kong PM with Jan Rei. Sana may linaw
>> na ang kaso nung kay JP Baje, kung member sya ng PARA mapping team. Di ko
>> maiwasang mapa-PI at map-lk nang nakita ko ang mga edits ni Jan Rei.
>> Salamat na we have now a direct contact with a PARA map editor.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 9:59 PM Erwin Olario  wrote:
>>
>>> Sa palagay ko, ang pinaka-maganda ay makapag-setup ng dialogue sa
>>> grupong (?) ito, para matulungan silang malinawan sa mga alituntunin ng
>>> OSM, kung yun nga talaga ang isyu dito.
>>>
>>> Sumagot ulit yung user na kausap ko, at sinasabi niyang hindi daw
>>> kinopya sa ibang mapa yung mga edits niya, at kinalap daw niya yon sa ibang
>>> sources. Hiniling kong mag-bigay siya ng karagdagan pang detalye sa proseso
>>> nila.
>>>
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
>>> 
>>> » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
>>> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
>>> D56B
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:39 AM Jherome Miguel 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Kinakausap ko na rin ang user kung kilala rin niya yung si “JPBaje”.
 Lumalakas ang kutob ko na editor rin sya for PARA, lalo’t hindi siya
 nag-reply sa una kong mga PM sa kanya bago nirevert ang lahat ng edits niya
 at siya’y binlock ng DWG.

 On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:40 PM Erwin Olario  wrote:

> I also got a reply, and the username[0] has been changed.
>
> The user acknowledged their affiliation with the Para app, but did not
> disclose the source of their edits.
>
> I have previously been in touch with officers from this corporation,
> and in the past, they promised that they will abide by OSM rules.  If you
> get any permission to share that number, I'm willing to discuss this
> further with their users
>
> [0]:
> https://osmcha.org/filters?aoi=68b0b447-b692-47cd-ac6d-7be521e084b4
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**it**y**.xyz*
> 
> » mobile: https://t.me/GOwin
> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE
> 3A93 D56B
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 10:07 AM Jherome Miguel <
> jheromemig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Jherome Miguel 
>> Date: Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 8:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Another user possibly illegal copying from GMaps
>> To: Eugene Alvin Villar 
>>
>>
>> Just received reply (in Tagalog) from user, asking me to contact by
>> phone, but as I’m in Canada, could discuss it on-site instead. I’m in a
>> middle of a mass revert of edits around BF Homes when I received their 
>> PM.
>>
> ___
>> talk-ph mailing list
>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
> ___
 talk-ph mailing list
 talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph

>>> ___
>> talk-ph mailing list
>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
> ___
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>