[talk-ph] Draw the line between primary and secondary road classes for rural areas.
It 's been months since we went through this whole conversation to revamp
our road classification which haven 't changed to take in account other
possible factors, but to completely draw the line between primary and
secondary class roads in rural areas (which other mappers haven't
completely accepted), I'm presenting again the new definitions by context
as I originally elaborated, except for additions from further observation.:
* Primary
-- Urban: Non-trunk major arterials, usually a numbered national road.
Serves as a major route across town. Just for guidance, usually three-digit
highways under DPWH. Can consider upgrade to trunk if road is like an
expressway between at least two major intersections, with
overpasses/flyovers or underpasses over congested crossings, and most
smaller intersections closed and replaced with a U-turn slot somewhere
nearby.
--Rural/regional: Major non-trunk highways that connect to all other cities
as well as large towns. Lower in importance than trunk, but still the main
way around a region or province. Just for guidance, usually three-digit
highways under DPWH.
* Secondary
--Urban: Minor arterials, connecting at least 3 barangays or districts, not
necessarily within the same city/municipality. Not heavily traveled as the
primary or trunk routes, but still important routes within an urban area.
Can be a "promoted" tertiary (collector) road, with higher quality and more
traffic. Just for guidance, are mostly unnumbered roads under DPWH
("national tertiary roads"), and city/municipal roads.
-- Rural - Smaller highways that connects [a] small town centers[s] or
serves as an alternate route to a major numbered route it parallels. Lower
travel speeds (40-60 kph), and often used by traffic headed to barangays
along it or the town centers it serves. Just for guidance (but can
influence classification), usually a unnumbered national road or provincial
road.
--TagaSanPedroAko
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Re: [talk-ph] Draw the line between primary and secondary road classes for rural areas.
Hi Jherome,
I think the problem with discussing the road classifications in the
Philippines is that the proposals you are suggesting are too abstract.
Here's a suggestion: Why not create a simple map using uMap[1] showing how
your proposed changes would affect the road network in a few selected
provinces in the country. Let's select, say, Guimaras, Negros Oriental, and
Pangasinan as those provinces. Then once we are able to visualize how your
proposed road networks look like then we can have a more concrete
discussion about your proposed changes.
[1] https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/
~Eugene
On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:37 AM Jherome Miguel
wrote:
> It 's been months since we went through this whole conversation to revamp
> our road classification which haven 't changed to take in account other
> possible factors, but to completely draw the line between primary and
> secondary class roads in rural areas (which other mappers haven't
> completely accepted), I'm presenting again the new definitions by context
> as I originally elaborated, except for additions from further observation.:
>
> * Primary
> -- Urban: Non-trunk major arterials, usually a numbered national road.
> Serves as a major route across town. Just for guidance, usually
> three-digit highways under DPWH. Can consider upgrade to trunk if road is
> like an expressway between at least two major intersections, with
> overpasses/flyovers or underpasses over congested crossings, and most
> smaller intersections closed and replaced with a U-turn slot somewhere
> nearby.
> --Rural/regional: Major non-trunk highways that connect to all other
> cities as well as large towns. Lower in importance than trunk, but still
> the main way around a region or province. Just for guidance, usually
> three-digit highways under DPWH.
> * Secondary
> --Urban: Minor arterials, connecting at least 3 barangays or districts,
> not necessarily within the same city/municipality. Not heavily traveled as
> the primary or trunk routes, but still important routes within an urban
> area. Can be a "promoted" tertiary (collector) road, with higher quality
> and more traffic. Just for guidance, are mostly unnumbered roads under DPWH
> ("national tertiary roads"), and city/municipal roads.
> -- Rural - Smaller highways that connects [a] small town centers[s] or
> serves as an alternate route to a major numbered route it parallels. Lower
> travel speeds (40-60 kph), and often used by traffic headed to barangays
> along it or the town centers it serves. Just for guidance (but can
> influence classification), usually a unnumbered national road or provincial
> road.
>
>
> --TagaSanPedroAko
> ___
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Draw the line between primary and secondary road classes for rural areas.
I'm creating a simple map of the major highways in Pangasinan, which also
have colored nodes representing each city and municipal center by
population size (red for large cities with population of 100+K, blue for
large municipalities with 100+K, yellow for medium-sized municipalities of
50K-100K, and green for smaller municipalities with <50K). It's kind of
slow, and I'm yet to complete that, but I'm seeing proof from that map that
should be convincing that we need to rework the road classification system.
Have you ever have any concern about the previous definition of primary
(per Rally), as a road linking every municipality regardless of their
population size? I find Rally's proposal, as well as the 2007 version which
it modifies, having an more or less apparent bias towards urban road
networks (something to do with it being originally designed for Metro
Manila roads as I see on a previous discussion on OSM Wiki).
I find it hard to translate this from Tagalog to English in my head, but I
think primaries should be visible in the same zoom as trunk roads, and
normally serve a city with a population of <=100K and medium or large
municipalities with 50+K (figures from the latest census). If their main
destination is a municipality with less than 50K residents, they can get
dowgraded to secondary. If the road currently classified as primary is
designated a provincial road, then it's assumed to be less traveled
(national road designation often indicates a heavily traveled route to many
of us), and they better fit a lower class that is, usually, secondary.
--TagaSanPedroAko
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:29 AM Eugene Alvin Villar, wrote:
> Hi Jherome,
>
> I think the problem with discussing the road classifications in the
> Philippines is that the proposals you are suggesting are too abstract.
>
> Here's a suggestion: Why not create a simple map using uMap[1] showing how
> your proposed changes would affect the road network in a few selected
> provinces in the country. Let's select, say, Guimaras, Negros Oriental, and
> Pangasinan as those provinces. Then once we are able to visualize how your
> proposed road networks look like then we can have a more concrete
> discussion about your proposed changes.
>
> [1] https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/
>
> ~Eugene
>
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:37 AM Jherome Miguel
> wrote:
>
>> It 's been months since we went through this whole conversation to revamp
>> our road classification which haven 't changed to take in account other
>> possible factors, but to completely draw the line between primary and
>> secondary class roads in rural areas (which other mappers haven't
>> completely accepted), I'm presenting again the new definitions by context
>> as I originally elaborated, except for additions from further observation.:
>>
>> * Primary
>> -- Urban: Non-trunk major arterials, usually a numbered national road.
>> Serves as a major route across town. Just for guidance, usually
>> three-digit highways under DPWH. Can consider upgrade to trunk if road is
>> like an expressway between at least two major intersections, with
>> overpasses/flyovers or underpasses over congested crossings, and most
>> smaller intersections closed and replaced with a U-turn slot somewhere
>> nearby.
>> --Rural/regional: Major non-trunk highways that connect to all other
>> cities as well as large towns. Lower in importance than trunk, but still
>> the main way around a region or province. Just for guidance, usually
>> three-digit highways under DPWH.
>> * Secondary
>> --Urban: Minor arterials, connecting at least 3 barangays or districts,
>> not necessarily within the same city/municipality. Not heavily traveled as
>> the primary or trunk routes, but still important routes within an urban
>> area. Can be a "promoted" tertiary (collector) road, with higher quality
>> and more traffic. Just for guidance, are mostly unnumbered roads under DPWH
>> ("national tertiary roads"), and city/municipal roads.
>> -- Rural - Smaller highways that connects [a] small town centers[s] or
>> serves as an alternate route to a major numbered route it parallels. Lower
>> travel speeds (40-60 kph), and often used by traffic headed to barangays
>> along it or the town centers it serves. Just for guidance (but can
>> influence classification), usually a unnumbered national road or provincial
>> road.
>>
>>
>> --TagaSanPedroAko
>> ___
>> talk-ph mailing list
>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
>
___
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Re: [talk-ph] Draw the line between primary and secondary road classes for rural areas.
Hi Jherome,
How is the map visualization coming along? Regarding your latest ticket
about upgraded/downgraded routes (like Tagaytay-Nasugbu) I think we need to
fix the classification scheme first before tinkering with actual map fixes
(or even map reversions).
~Eugene
P.S. I think it's okay to have Tagaytay-Nasugbu as trunk because it
provides a loop with Ternate/Maragondon and Aguinaldo Highway and Governors
Drive in an increasingly urbanizing area.
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:28 AM Jherome Miguel,
wrote:
> I'm creating a simple map of the major highways in Pangasinan, which also
> have colored nodes representing each city and municipal center by
> population size (red for large cities with population of 100+K, blue for
> large municipalities with 100+K, yellow for medium-sized municipalities of
> 50K-100K, and green for smaller municipalities with <50K). It's kind of
> slow, and I'm yet to complete that, but I'm seeing proof from that map that
> should be convincing that we need to rework the road classification system.
>
> Have you ever have any concern about the previous definition of primary
> (per Rally), as a road linking every municipality regardless of their
> population size? I find Rally's proposal, as well as the 2007 version which
> it modifies, having an more or less apparent bias towards urban road
> networks (something to do with it being originally designed for Metro
> Manila roads as I see on a previous discussion on OSM Wiki).
>
> I find it hard to translate this from Tagalog to English in my head, but I
> think primaries should be visible in the same zoom as trunk roads, and
> normally serve a city with a population of <=100K and medium or large
> municipalities with 50+K (figures from the latest census). If their main
> destination is a municipality with less than 50K residents, they can get
> dowgraded to secondary. If the road currently classified as primary is
> designated a provincial road, then it's assumed to be less traveled
> (national road designation often indicates a heavily traveled route to many
> of us), and they better fit a lower class that is, usually, secondary.
>
> --TagaSanPedroAko
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:29 AM Eugene Alvin Villar,
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jherome,
>>
>> I think the problem with discussing the road classifications in the
>> Philippines is that the proposals you are suggesting are too abstract.
>>
>> Here's a suggestion: Why not create a simple map using uMap[1] showing
>> how your proposed changes would affect the road network in a few selected
>> provinces in the country. Let's select, say, Guimaras, Negros Oriental, and
>> Pangasinan as those provinces. Then once we are able to visualize how your
>> proposed road networks look like then we can have a more concrete
>> discussion about your proposed changes.
>>
>> [1] https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/
>>
>> ~Eugene
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 4:37 AM Jherome Miguel
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It 's been months since we went through this whole conversation to
>>> revamp our road classification which haven 't changed to take in account
>>> other possible factors, but to completely draw the line between primary and
>>> secondary class roads in rural areas (which other mappers haven't
>>> completely accepted), I'm presenting again the new definitions by context
>>> as I originally elaborated, except for additions from further observation.:
>>>
>>> * Primary
>>> -- Urban: Non-trunk major arterials, usually a numbered national road.
>>> Serves as a major route across town. Just for guidance, usually
>>> three-digit highways under DPWH. Can consider upgrade to trunk if road is
>>> like an expressway between at least two major intersections, with
>>> overpasses/flyovers or underpasses over congested crossings, and most
>>> smaller intersections closed and replaced with a U-turn slot somewhere
>>> nearby.
>>> --Rural/regional: Major non-trunk highways that connect to all other
>>> cities as well as large towns. Lower in importance than trunk, but still
>>> the main way around a region or province. Just for guidance, usually
>>> three-digit highways under DPWH.
>>> * Secondary
>>> --Urban: Minor arterials, connecting at least 3 barangays or districts,
>>> not necessarily within the same city/municipality. Not heavily traveled as
>>> the primary or trunk routes, but still important routes within an urban
>>> area. Can be a "promoted" tertiary (collector) road, with higher quality
>>> and more traffic. Just for guidance, are mostly unnumbered roads under DPWH
>>> ("national tertiary roads"), and city/municipal roads.
>>> -- Rural - Smaller highways that connects [a] small town centers[s] or
>>> serves as an alternate route to a major numbered route it parallels. Lower
>>> travel speeds (40-60 kph), and often used by traffic headed to barangays
>>> along it or the town centers it serves. Just for guidance (but can
>>> influence classification), usually a unnumbered national road or provincial
>>> road.
>>>
>>>
>>> --T
