Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
So it's here: http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=business6_jan20_2009 On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM, maning sambale wrote: > My take: > On attracting more contributors: > Yes! By all means. > > On vandalism: > We all know OSM is a wiki. So nobody can stop vandalism, in my > experience most newbie mappers do not really vandalize, they're just > making mistakes. We all do at some point of our mapping. > > That being said, "with more eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". > Currently there are no tools to effectively monitor perceived > vandalism (intentional or not). The future api should be able to > address some of them: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6 > >>> Agree I am sick of seeing on maps "MY house" or "randy's house" listed.. > I don't see a problem with this as long as we follow the addressing schema: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema > > On moderating changes: > I don't think any tool for approving/rejecting changes could work. > Only more human eyes can work. I use ito's osm mapper to monitor > changes in my mapping area. On thing I can say for prospective > vandals. Don't mess with my mapping area! I will revert your edits > right away. In most cases, wala pa namang nag-ba-vandal :). Any mode > of policing might be futile. > > On mistakes by newbies: > I usually contact them with a friendly message via the osm send > message function. If I see them making mistakes, I contact them > directly and ask them to correct them. I don't revert edits by other > especially if it's not around my immediate mapping area. I also use > openstreetbugs to flag errors. > > OSM is a self-service project anybody can do whatever they want. > Others may I ask then: So can I trust OSM data? My take, can you > trust government data in the Philippines: > http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/comparing-philippine-road-data/ > > Keep on mapping. > > > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Jim Morgan wrote: >> ian lopez wrote, On Monday, January 19, 2009 10:12 AM: >>> The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm >>> probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it >>> wouldn't happen. >> >> You know the saying there's no such thing as bad publicity. >> >> Well yes, I guess there is always a risk, but we can't have it both ways. We >> need more contributors, so we need more coverage. I think most people will >> just use the data to export maps in any case, but if they do that, then we >> also get exposure when people ask them where they got the map from. I think >> the actual mapping bit will only appeal to a certain kind of person. >> >> But this is an interesting point. What protection do we have against the >> deletion of information, accidental or otherwise? I remember when I started >> on OSM, a large area I'd worked on was deleted, but I think it was >> eventually restored from a backup. Can we roll back changes? Specifically, >> can we roll back changes made by a particular user? Are backups held at OSM >> central, or are we responsible for holding them ourselves. >> >> Its a tricky one to police. Should we have an identity check for people >> signing up? Verification by phone for example. Probably not, as its against >> the ethos of Open-ness. >> >> Should we have a moderator who needs to approve changes? This is how >> wikipedia copes with the problem. Maybe if we could have moderator approval >> for changes over a certain number of nodes? Just thinking aloud here. I'm >> guessing none of this control is available within the OSM backend. But >> perhaps they could build it in if it is requested. >> >> Just for the record, I'm a professional paranoiac: I'm in IT security, so >> these are the sorts of questions I have to ask my clients every day. >> >> Jim >> >> >> ___ >> talk-ph mailing list >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph >> > > > > -- > cheers, > maning > -- > "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden > wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ > blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ > -- > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
My take: On attracting more contributors: Yes! By all means. On vandalism: We all know OSM is a wiki. So nobody can stop vandalism, in my experience most newbie mappers do not really vandalize, they're just making mistakes. We all do at some point of our mapping. That being said, "with more eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". Currently there are no tools to effectively monitor perceived vandalism (intentional or not). The future api should be able to address some of them: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Protocol_Version_0.6 >> Agree I am sick of seeing on maps "MY house" or "randy's house" listed.. I don't see a problem with this as long as we follow the addressing schema: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema On moderating changes: I don't think any tool for approving/rejecting changes could work. Only more human eyes can work. I use ito's osm mapper to monitor changes in my mapping area. On thing I can say for prospective vandals. Don't mess with my mapping area! I will revert your edits right away. In most cases, wala pa namang nag-ba-vandal :). Any mode of policing might be futile. On mistakes by newbies: I usually contact them with a friendly message via the osm send message function. If I see them making mistakes, I contact them directly and ask them to correct them. I don't revert edits by other especially if it's not around my immediate mapping area. I also use openstreetbugs to flag errors. OSM is a self-service project anybody can do whatever they want. Others may I ask then: So can I trust OSM data? My take, can you trust government data in the Philippines: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/comparing-philippine-road-data/ Keep on mapping. On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Jim Morgan wrote: > ian lopez wrote, On Monday, January 19, 2009 10:12 AM: >> The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm >> probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it >> wouldn't happen. > > You know the saying there's no such thing as bad publicity. > > Well yes, I guess there is always a risk, but we can't have it both ways. We > need more contributors, so we need more coverage. I think most people will > just use the data to export maps in any case, but if they do that, then we > also get exposure when people ask them where they got the map from. I think > the actual mapping bit will only appeal to a certain kind of person. > > But this is an interesting point. What protection do we have against the > deletion of information, accidental or otherwise? I remember when I started > on OSM, a large area I'd worked on was deleted, but I think it was eventually > restored from a backup. Can we roll back changes? Specifically, can we roll > back changes made by a particular user? Are backups held at OSM central, or > are we responsible for holding them ourselves. > > Its a tricky one to police. Should we have an identity check for people > signing up? Verification by phone for example. Probably not, as its against > the ethos of Open-ness. > > Should we have a moderator who needs to approve changes? This is how > wikipedia copes with the problem. Maybe if we could have moderator approval > for changes over a certain number of nodes? Just thinking aloud here. I'm > guessing none of this control is available within the OSM backend. But > perhaps they could build it in if it is requested. > > Just for the record, I'm a professional paranoiac: I'm in IT security, so > these are the sorts of questions I have to ask my clients every day. > > Jim > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
The problem with OSM is that there's no effective "Recent Changes" unlike in a text-based Wiki where the "diff" is institutionalized. We have ITO OSM Mapper to help point out activity, but unless we dig into the data, there's no way to know what has changed, whether a point was added to a way, or a tag was deleted, etc. I was hoping that API 0.6, with its support for changesets, would become effective before OSM goes mainstream. That way, we can police changes. ~ Eugene / seav On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Jim Morgan wrote: > ian lopez wrote, On Monday, January 19, 2009 10:12 AM: > > The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm > > probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it > > wouldn't happen. > > You know the saying there's no such thing as bad publicity. > > Well yes, I guess there is always a risk, but we can't have it both ways. > We need more contributors, so we need more coverage. I think most people > will just use the data to export maps in any case, but if they do that, then > we also get exposure when people ask them where they got the map from. I > think the actual mapping bit will only appeal to a certain kind of person. > > But this is an interesting point. What protection do we have against the > deletion of information, accidental or otherwise? I remember when I started > on OSM, a large area I'd worked on was deleted, but I think it was > eventually restored from a backup. Can we roll back changes? Specifically, > can we roll back changes made by a particular user? Are backups held at OSM > central, or are we responsible for holding them ourselves. > > Its a tricky one to police. Should we have an identity check for people > signing up? Verification by phone for example. Probably not, as its against > the ethos of Open-ness. > > Should we have a moderator who needs to approve changes? This is how > wikipedia copes with the problem. Maybe if we could have moderator approval > for changes over a certain number of nodes? Just thinking aloud here. I'm > guessing none of this control is available within the OSM backend. But > perhaps they could build it in if it is requested. > > Just for the record, I'm a professional paranoiac: I'm in IT security, so > these are the sorts of questions I have to ask my clients every day. > > Jim > > > ___ > talk-ph mailing list > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph > -- http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
ian lopez wrote, On Monday, January 19, 2009 10:12 AM: > The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm > probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it > wouldn't happen. You know the saying there's no such thing as bad publicity. Well yes, I guess there is always a risk, but we can't have it both ways. We need more contributors, so we need more coverage. I think most people will just use the data to export maps in any case, but if they do that, then we also get exposure when people ask them where they got the map from. I think the actual mapping bit will only appeal to a certain kind of person. But this is an interesting point. What protection do we have against the deletion of information, accidental or otherwise? I remember when I started on OSM, a large area I'd worked on was deleted, but I think it was eventually restored from a backup. Can we roll back changes? Specifically, can we roll back changes made by a particular user? Are backups held at OSM central, or are we responsible for holding them ourselves. Its a tricky one to police. Should we have an identity check for people signing up? Verification by phone for example. Probably not, as its against the ethos of Open-ness. Should we have a moderator who needs to approve changes? This is how wikipedia copes with the problem. Maybe if we could have moderator approval for changes over a certain number of nodes? Just thinking aloud here. I'm guessing none of this control is available within the OSM backend. But perhaps they could build it in if it is requested. Just for the record, I'm a professional paranoiac: I'm in IT security, so these are the sorts of questions I have to ask my clients every day. Jim ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
On Monday 19 January 2009 10:12:20 ian lopez wrote: > The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm > probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it > wouldn't happen. > Agree I am sick of seeing on maps "MY house" or "randy's house" listed.. ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Media Coverage
The media coverage may be good for the Pinoy OSM community, but I'm probably concerned that this would bring in "vandals". Hopefully, it wouldn't happen. --- On Mon, 1/19/09, Jim Morgan wrote: From: Jim Morgan Subject: [talk-ph] Media Coverage To: "OSM" Date: Monday, January 19, 2009, 10:05 AM Hi All, I recently contacted Chin Wong over at www.chinwong.com to tell him about OSM. I've previously communicated with him on some other issues. He liked Opensteetmap a lot and tells me he's going to write a column about it in http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/, appearing tomorrow. More OSM users on the way ... would be good if it gets picked up by some of the nationwide newspapers. Jim ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[talk-ph] Media Coverage
Hi All, I recently contacted Chin Wong over at www.chinwong.com to tell him about OSM. I've previously communicated with him on some other issues. He liked Opensteetmap a lot and tells me he's going to write a column about it in http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/, appearing tomorrow. More OSM users on the way ... would be good if it gets picked up by some of the nationwide newspapers. Jim ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
